# Is it disrespectful to refer to Senator Clinton as "Hillary?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765 "2007-06-12T20:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/21 "2007-06-13T15:10:27Z")
This is definitely a situational issue. I’d break it down into at least three categories: (1) Formal or serious academic or journalistic writing: “(U.S. Sen.) Hillary Rodham Clinton” on first reference, then “Clinton” (if unambiguous – in many cases it will be clear that it’s not Bill Clinton who’s being discussed) or “Ms./Mrs./Senator Clinton” thereafter. (2) Informal: For personal conversations or less formal writing or journalism, “Hillary” is fine so long as context makes it clear who is being referred to. (3) Casual or Familiar: Nicknames such as “Dubya” are appropriate (remember it’s his real family nickname, so not necessarily disparaging), such as in casual conversation, such as on the SDMB (although not all threads – serious commentary could be categorized under (1) or (2)). In this case, I think Hillary Clinton doesn’t have the kind of common nickname that should be reserved only for (3). In my view, what her own preference is for campaign purposes isn’t a very relevant factor. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/22 "2007-06-13T15:29:06Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] This is definitely a situational issue. I’d break it down into at least three categories: (1) Formal or serious academic or journalistic writing: “(U.S. Sen.) Hillary Rodham Clinton” on first reference, then “Clinton” (if unambiguous – in many cases it will be clear that it’s not Bill Clinton who’s being discussed) or “Ms./Mrs./Senator Clinton” thereafter. (2) Informal: For personal conversations or less formal writing or journalism, “Hillary” is fine so long as context makes it clear who is being referred to. (3) Casual or Familiar: Nicknames such as “Dubya” are appropriate (remember it’s his real family nickname, so not necessarily disparaging), such as in casual conversation, such as on the SDMB (although not all threads – serious commentary could be categorized under (1) or (2)). In this case, I think Hillary Clinton doesn’t have the kind of common nickname that should be reserved only for (3). In my view, what her own preference is for campaign purposes isn’t a very relevant factor. [/QUOTE] I agree with you overall. One nitpick…“Dubya” or “W” is not GWB’s family nickname…according to Barbara, they never called him that (sorry, can’t find a cite…I think I read that in her memoir). The reason I bring this up is not to bust your chops, but because I actually think that the vast majority of cases where this is used, it IS intended to be disparaging. You are right that HRC doesn’t have such a nickname, so is it possible that “Hillary” is used in the same sense…as a way to treat her less seriously than a US Senator deserves? Personally, I think that Tomndebb is probably right…it’s an issue that’s not really an issue. But it does make me wonder if there is underlying sexism going on (or, perhaps, just underlying dislike of HRC, which doesn’t seem too farfetched, either). ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/23 "2007-06-13T16:40:21Z")
Calling her by her first name also makes her ‘approachable’ to the comman man - reffering to her as Senator Clinton (irregardless of Former President Clinton) makes her seem ‘stuffy’ and a ‘politicion’. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/24 "2007-06-13T16:48:33Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] One nitpick…“Dubya” or “W” is not GWB’s family nickname…according to Barbara, they never called him that (sorry, can’t find a cite…I think I read that in her memoir). [/QUOTE] Curiously enough, they _do_ call him Bush the Lesser frequently. Sorry, I’ll go now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/25 "2007-06-13T18:03:24Z")
First name references to Sen. Clinton are necessary sometimes, but they also have the advantage of making her seem a little more friendly- and being unapproachable has long been her problem. [QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Now if only she could decide whether or not to insist upon “Rodham.” [/QUOTE] She hasn’t been using it lately. The New Yorker actually tracked the changes in her name in a recent issue - she didn’t use the name Clinton at all until one of Bill’s campaigns for governor of Arkansas, and I think she’s gone back and forth on Rodham a few times. On her Web site, I’m told, her maiden name doesn’t appear at all. The New Yorker quoted one of her spokespeople saying her name ‘policy’ is the same it’s always been, and all I could think was “Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/26 "2007-06-13T18:13:57Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] she didn’t use the name Clinton at all until one of Bill’s campaigns for governor of Arkansas, and I think she’s gone back and forth on Rodham a few times. [/QUOTE] I vaguely remember some…bad press for lack of a better term…in rural areas regarding the use of Rodham instead of Clinton during the gubernatorial election. :rolleyes: The Wife of a friend who lived near the Governor’s Mansion chased her down once while Bill was jogging and Hillary was bicycling to complain about a day care, and I can’t recall what she called her. Probably “Hey!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/27 "2007-06-13T18:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I vaguely remember some…bad press for lack of a better term…in rural areas regarding the use of Rodham instead of Clinton during the gubernatorial election. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Yeah, it was implied in the story (it was Talk of the Town, not a news story, and focused on two new books about her) that that’s why people managed to talk her into going by Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/28 "2007-06-13T18:20:16Z")
Not at all, it’s brand recognition, and makes our relationship with her more personal. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/29 "2007-06-13T18:20:31Z")
One version of Dubya: ([Lorrie Lynch on USA.Weekend.com](http://www.usaweekend.com/01_issues/010422/010422whosnews.html)) > [@](#): > > Columnist Molly Ivins coined it in 1995; it’s the spelled-out Texas-drawl version of Bush’s middle initial (for “Walker”). Her editor at the “Fort Worth Star-Telegram” tells us Ivins “owned ‘Dubya’ from the mid-'90s to 1999, then it caught on with everyone else.” Well, not really everyone. Close friends call Bush “George W.” His dad sometimes calls him “Quincy,” a reference to John Quincy Adams, the only son of a president to become president. And almost everybody else calls him “Mr. President.” The formality of the Oval Office has not dashed Bush’s affinity for nicknames: Condoleezza Rice is “Guru,” Karen (Parfitt) Hughes is “High Prophet” and Laura Bush is often “First,” as in “first lady.” Without citations, my memory was that once Ivins got it out into the æther, his buddies picked up on it and used it in a friendly fashion. (As noted in the article, Bush (and, presumably, his friends) are partial to hanging nicknames on associates, so it is not was though the idea is outlandish.) Obviously, it was not coined in a friendly fashion, but taking the sting out of an insult by “owning” it is a pretty common practice and I still see lots of “W/04” bumper and window stickers around. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/30 "2007-06-13T18:20:34Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] The New Yorker quoted one of her spokespeople saying her name ‘policy’ is the same it’s always been, and all I could think was “Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.” 😃 [/QUOTE] Wow, you gotta be pretty important to have a “policy” about your name. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/31 "2007-06-13T18:34:29Z")
Here’s the story in question - it was actually a book review and longer than I remembered. The name stuff is on page 2. > **[The Lady Vanishes](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/11/the-lady-vanishes-2)** > > Two biographies search for the real Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/32 "2007-06-13T18:53:06Z")
[QUOTE=toadspittle] Bill Clinton was the first Clinton on the national scene. [/QUOTE] Minor [nitpick.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Clinton_%28American_War_of_Independence%29) _This post brought to you by a mildly annoying history buff._ Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/33 "2007-06-13T19:56:51Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] Minor [nitpick.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Clinton_%28American_War_of_Independence%29) _This post brought to you by a mildly annoying history buff._ [/QUOTE] Now, I would not have considered him a national figure (although I can see, and would not argue vociferously against, such a claim), so when I first read **toadspittle** ’s post, my first thought was [DeWitt Clinton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeWitt_Clinton). ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/34 "2007-06-14T07:09:41Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Now, I would not have considered him a national figure (although I can see, and would not argue vociferously against, such a claim), so when I first read **toadspittle** ’s post, my first thought was [DeWitt Clinton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeWitt_Clinton). [/QUOTE] Mine was George. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/35 "2007-06-14T13:37:33Z")
If meeting her in person, go with “Senator Clinton.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/36 "2007-06-14T17:38:26Z")
[QUOTE=furt] Mine was George. [/QUOTE] The funkmeister or the 19th century American politician? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765/37 "2007-06-18T17:10:59Z")
Here’s what she has to say about it: > [@](#): > > **SALON** : Let me ask something that comes up every time I write about you. I sometimes refer to you on, say, the fifth reference as “Hillary” instead of “Clinton.” I always get three or four letters saying that I am demeaning women by referring to you by your first name. But your campaign materials refer to you as “Hillary” and the word “Clinton” might also apply to another well-known public person. Do you have any feelings about this? Am I offending you every time I type “Hillary, Obama and Edwards”? Or do you have an open mind as long as I spell Hillary correctly? > > **HC** : I probably have more of an open mind. But I understand the point people are taking because if you also refer to Rudy and Mitt and John then that would be even-handed. I get the same indignation from a lot of women who read you and others and say, “They never call the other candidates by their first name.” > > And I think that in print – as opposed to building a campaign that really does use my first name because it is so identified with who I am – that’s the concern that people have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-disrespectful-to-refer-to-senator-clinton-as-hillary/407765.md?page=1)