Location matters. Sneaking a gun into someone else’s home without their knowledge or expressed permission is socially transgressive, and it’s disturbingly transgressive if its the home of a person you have no reason to believe is a danger to you and with whom you have established an understanding of mutual trust. That’s not normal. It’s weird.
People have said, “well, what if I carry it everywhere?”
Well, fine, but just have the decency to tell me before you bring it into my home. It’s not carrying the weapon per se that’s disturning and rude, it’s the secrecy and sneakiness about it. There is absolutely no reason to keep it a secret from your host.
I’ll echo what others have said: the legality of CCW is irelevant in regards to what’s ethical in this scenario. Legal right or not, I don’t want anyone carrying firearms into my house without my express permission. And since the vast majority of our visitors either do not have CCW license, or carry firearms around with them, it’s not even remotely unusual for me to not ask them whether they’re armed. The presumption is that they’re not, and that they’d warn me beforehand if they are. (While my state does allow CCW, I’m willing to bet that most folks in my metro area are unaware of its legal status, and that the burden is on the homeowner to expressly state whether firearms are disallowed.)
I also feel the whole signage thing is silly concerning residences. Businesses, yes, I understand and approve that the burden should be on their shoulders because they’re catering to the public at large. I, however, am not in the same position in regards to my home, and I shouldn’t have to post a sign disallowing firearms any more than I should one prohibiting smoking. The default presumption should be to ask for either one; in the absense of that permission, don’t do it.
And yes, I own guns. But I know mine are secured, unloaded, and separated from the ammunition by lock and key. I can’t make the same promises about your firearms (and wouldn’t know to check if I wasn’t aware you were carrying), and I don’t want any loaded firearms accidentally being left behind or left unattended in purses, or any other scenario where I can’t reasonably control what’s happening.
I’d be in favor of a legal remedy so that the burden of asking is shifted to the CCW holder.
I don’t mind you exercising your rights all you want in public. You can go topless if you want. It’s legal in New York City for either gender.
But if you’re going to take your shirt off in my house, you might just want to tell me. Might shock my grandma.
I don’t see how having a criminal record or a record of hard drug use is a threat to my safety. Now, if that criminal record involve raping babies, yeah, I’d kind of like to know, and generally, I’m aware of people who have that kind of record in my neighborhood.
Outside of raping babies? Not so concerned. I work with these people on a daily basis, Una. Seriously, it’s my job, drug rehab.
I’m not scared of any of them. Why should I be? I’m also not scared of anyone with a concealed weapon. Very little scares me short of lightning hitting about ten feet away. That, I confess, made me freeze in my tracks for a second, before I realized I was in the middle of the road.
I am, however, seriously offended if you bring it in my home. I think it’s a violation of the ethics of being a guest.
“If you are a guest in a certain place, conduct yourself in conformity with local custom.”
Or to put it another way, there’s a reason the Loving Cup is held by two people.
This, pkbites. If there’s no CCW for civilians, how are you carrying? Open carry legal? If so, and you’re open carrying, then I apologize for the confusion, but you seem to be saying 'there’s no CCW for people in Wisconsin, I have no more right than anyone else to carry, but I carry." Or is CCW only legal for police? If so, again, just missing information.
I should note that the trick here is not carrying a weapon, but carrying a concealed weapon. If people open carry into my house, it’s not an issue, I’ll know they’re armed. It’s the social ramification of wandering around with a hidden weapon that’s the issue.
At this point of my life everyone who’s home I go into know I always carry (unless I’m drinking). I can’t think of one person who’s home I go into on a regular basis who would be surprised to learn I was carrying. My past experiences and conversations with all these people (and there are a lot of them) solidifies my knowledge that they already know and assume I’m carrying, and that they have no problem with it. They also know that when I accept so much as a beer from them that’s it’s a sure thing that I’m not packing.
So I’m not going to tell them that I’m carrying every time I go to their house.
On the rare times I’ve gone into somebodies home for the first time, I tend to say “I’m an off duty police officer and I have a weapon on me. Are you alright with that?” I’ve yet to have anyone object, but if they did I would lock it in the trunk of my car.
I realize that this is different from a person carrying with a permit, as many people react differently to an off-duty cop carrying than they would to a private citizen carrying. In that case I would probably say “I have a permit to carry a firearm. Are you alright with this?”
In that case carrying without the knowledge of the owner is extremely rude and pretentious, but it doesn’t make one psychopathic. Diogenes the Cynic uses venom as a debating tool and it’s boring.
I’d be willing to bet you’re mistaken on that. :dubious:
And weigh me on the "yes, it’s unethical, because it’s rude and inconsiderate not to at LEAST ask first. Unless you know said person wouldn’t have a problem with it. Yeesh, people, courtesy? It’s the principle of the thing.
Would I LET someone bring a gun into my house? Eeeeehhhhh…it depends on who that someone is, and how well I know that person. Like a lot of my relatives, for instance, or for example, Una, I’ve coresponded with you for a while, and I FEEL like I know you, so it’d be no big deal. (But again, just TELL me, so I know)
FWIW, I don’t own any guns myself, but I have plenty of relatives who do, and so I have no problem with the vast majority of law-abiding gunowners. Just the really wacked out (Poplawski) types, and the really stupid (Homer Simpson) types. (the latter are probably more common than the former).
Let’s face it, people – guns are a VERY emotional, highly charged topic in our society, whether we like it or not. So I don’t think people here are psychopaths, or wimps…just well, emotional. (Now, if you’ll excuse me, the battery on my laptop is about to go, and I’m starting to feel the effects of the Vicodin I just took)
CCW in public is only legal for peace officers. A peace officer is a peace officer regardless if they’re on duty or not.
My point was off-duty I have no more authority to be in a store with my concealed weapon than somebody else does openly carrying. Meaning if the owner/manager tells me he doesn’t want guns in there I’d better leave or I’d be guilty of trespass.
So, if a store is not posted (I don’t know of any businesses that are posted around here. There’s no law about it at this time) do ethics dictate that I approach whomever is in charge and say “I’m an off duty cop carrying a concealed firearm. Are you alright with that?”.
I think a store is not the same as a home. There is no personal relationship. There is no expectation of mutual trust. There is no social transgression.
Given that the vast majority of states are consistant with their laws regarding CCW in particular, I think it’s safer to say that its a ‘VERY emotional, highly charged topic’ ***to a small minority of people ***, but it doesn’t bother most citizens.
Using a word like “pussified” is just asking for the usual speculation about the sort of inadequacy you are attempting to compensate for. But I’m sure you’re tired of hearing about your little problem, so I won’t discuss it “at length.”
Coming into someone’s house with a hidden weapon is extremely rude & has been since before guns were common.
I might suspect that an off-duty law officer was carrying; they would be offered their choice of ice tea or water. Many social occasions include alcohol–which does not mix well with guns.
This being Texas, I know quite a few guys who hunt, collect guns or just keep a 12 gauge handy for home defense. But none of them are full-time whiners.
Being incompetent with a pack of cigarettes is not going to harm anyone. Just because you tell me you have a ccw license does not prove to me that you are competent with a firearm or take firearm safety seriously. Please stop with these bs comparisons.
That depends on how the law was enacted. Here in Missouri it came up for state-wide referendum and lost. The urban centers overwhelmingly rejected it. Then it was passed in the state legislature anyways and is now the law of the land. To claim that the 52% that opposed it in the state-wide vote is a “small minority of people” is a bit off.
Also, please note that CCW can be a non-issue and a person can still not want someone carrying a gun into their home (I would fall in this group).
Ah, so open carry is legal in your state, your CCW is legal. Nope, public business, the general public can wander in and out. Off duty cops are things people should expect to encounter as part of the general flow of life.
However, going from a store to a home, we’re bringing things from the sphere of the general public to the personal. I’m certainly not saying that people have to tell the home owner every time they’re carrying. Just that the first time you meet someone at their home, you should probably make them aware you’re an off-duty cop. Which translates to ‘a peace officer is a peace officer, on duty or off, and armed.’ If you weren’t a cop, and you were CCW, I’d say, on being told you were going somewhere, you should tell the guy whose house it is, ‘By the way, Bill, I’ve got a CCW license. You know that, right? So no beer for me tonight.’ But only the first time you go to Bill’s house.
As far as non-social behaviors, I’d say that the furnace guy damn well better tell me if he’s armed. And the cable guy too. I’ve heard home invasion stories starring furnace men and cable guys.
Garage sales are slightly different, it’s outside, on my property, but not in my house, and I’m inviting the general public.