# Is it ethical to give class credit for donating blood? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 27, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394 "2008-02-27T17:37:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/21 "2008-02-27T20:36:15Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] IMO I don’t think it is ethical that a psych teacher would give extra credit for people donating BLOOD. What if the person jabbing the needle in you screws up and hurts you? [/quote] You get a bruise. > [@](#): > > Some people who give blood feel awful afterwards too…a friend of mine passed out after she gave blood when I was in high school. > > Your teacher is a fool. They probably will feel better than a patient who has to postpone surgery due to a lack of available blood feels. Like [this cancer patient.](http://socalredcross.org/socal/battleofthebadges/recipients.php?ReCipientStory=Lorenzo_Abundiz) > [@](#): > > This all happened when surgeons had to cancel my kidney surgery just as I was to be wheeled into the operating room. The reason is because I had rare blood antigens and no matching blood was available for me at hospital or the local blood bank. My family and I were in shock because the tumor in my kidney was growing fast. > > The doctors contacted the American Red Cross for their assistance. Soon, a massive blood drive was organized. My wife made homemade cookies and stood in front of the blood donor center wearing my fire gear and waving a sign to passing motorists that read “cookies for blood.” The local news media captured her quest for blood and broadcast the news on television and radio. The donor center was flooded with phone calls from people across the country wanting to donate for me. > > I believe in miracles because a week into the blood drive, the American Red Cross located two units of blood somewhere near New York. I realize how hard the American Red Cross worked to locate that rare blood for me. Because of the American Red Cross, surgeons were able to move forward with my kidney surgery. Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough blood to cut out the tumor. Instead, they had to remove the entire kidney to save my life. It might do some of these self absorbed college kids good to roll up their sleeve and give a unit. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/22 "2008-02-27T20:38:26Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] You get a bruise. They probably will feel better than a patient who has to postpone surgery due to a lack of available blood feels. Like [this cancer patient.](http://socalredcross.org/socal/battleofthebadges/recipients.php?ReCipientStory=Lorenzo_Abundiz) It might do some of these self absorbed college kids good to roll up their sleeve and give a unit. [/QUOTE] Ooh, the _emotional_ argument. Convincing - especially since by it, grabbing people off the street and taking their blood against their _will_ is ethical. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/23 "2008-02-27T20:41:24Z")
I would consider this unethical behavior by a teacher. Extra credit isn’t inherently unethical, as long as everyone has a fair shot at it. I consider this particular exercise to be unethical because of the nature of the extra credit; it is not at all related to the academic nature of the class your professor is teaching. I won’t comment on the grading scale – as long as 5 extra points on the grade is ok with the administration, then whatever. Offering 5 points extra credit for writing an essay on a topic related to the class is perfectly fine. Offering 5 points extra credit for engaging in an entirely unrelated activity outside of the scope of that class? That’s unethical; if for absolutely no other reason than because it provides an advantage on a global scale (the GPA) unavailable to students of any other class for performing an extracurricular and, by definition, voluntary act. To detract a bit from the OP, and ignoring the ethical debate of the nature of the assignment, I would also say that the options provided are unequal. Some people can’t donate blood, either for health, religious, or completely irrelevant reasons (practice of sexual orientation comes to mind). To say that spending 15-20 minutes donating blood at a pre-selected location at a pre-selected time is equal to finding a volunteer opportunity, signing up for it, and spending 2 hours volunteering is simply unfair. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/24 "2008-02-27T20:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] It might do some of these self absorbed college kids good to roll up their sleeve and give a unit. [/QUOTE] Maybe. But they shouldn’t be rewarded with extra credit points in an entirely unrelated class for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/25 "2008-02-27T20:49:09Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] If it was elementary or high school, where teachers are teaching how to be good people as well as math and reading, then sure. But grades in college are supposed to be about the subject in the course catalog, not about creating good citizens. [/QUOTE] I agree, especially since I give credit for blood donation in my high school Government classes. Of course, it’s a bit different. We require 10 hours of community service as part of the course, and I count giving blood as 2 hours. But to just toss it in as part of a college course…no way. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/26 "2008-02-27T20:50:19Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Ooh, the _emotional_ argument. Convincing - especially since by it, grabbing people off the street and taking their blood against their _will_ is ethical. [/QUOTE] Please provide a cite where the red cross or the college went out with guns and forced people to donate blood. Extra credit is voluntary at least where I went to school. Need a little more straw? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/27 "2008-02-27T20:57:12Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] \ I count giving blood as 2 hours.\ [/QUOTE] Don’t you realize, two hours of community service or volunteering is much more of a burden than giving blood for 15-20 minutes. You should be ashamed of yourself, it’s almost as if you’re forcing your students to give blood instead of helping out the community. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/28 "2008-02-27T20:59:24Z")
[QUOTE=atomicbadgerrace] Extra credit isn’t inherently unethical, as long as everyone has a fair shot at it. I consider this particular exercise to be unethical because of the nature of the extra credit; it is not at all related to the academic nature of the class your professor is teaching. [/QUOTE] I agree: I think it’s wrong to offer a substantial amount of class credit (extra or otherwise) for something that is not relevant to the subject matter of the class. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/29 "2008-02-27T21:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] It might do some of these self absorbed college kids good to roll up their sleeve and give a unit. [/QUOTE] What self-absorbed college kids? Where? Oh, you mean those ones over at Stereotype University? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/30 "2008-02-27T21:02:36Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] Purchased blood is many times more likely to bear disease, and as a result, most donation facilities will not accept it. **This extra credit scheme is purchasing blood, and probably doing so in a way that bypasses the usual safeguards in place.** So the nitwit teacher is exposing unknown numbers of innocent people to dangers without their knowledge. I think someone should tell the School administration. Tris [/QUOTE] Could you expand on this? Are you saying that students who already know the system and know why they are ineligible would knowingly lie to pass eligibility? That alone assumes that the students, who likely have not given blood before, are aware of the disqualifying criteria. This would make the students’ ethics far more questionable than the professor’s. I will admit this raises an interesting question. I now know that I am disqualified for having lived in England for 2.5 years, so I no longer attend the blood drives. But how about the student who goes to give, but finds out s/he is ineligible. Will they still be given the 5 points? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/31 "2008-02-27T21:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] Oh, you mean those ones over at Stereotype University? [/QUOTE] I had a friend who was in a frat there. The parties kick ass. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/32 "2008-02-27T21:28:12Z")
[QUOTE=atomicbadgerrace] To detract a bit from the OP, and ignoring the ethical debate of the nature of the assignment, I would also say that the options provided are unequal. Some people can’t donate blood, either for health, religious, or completely irrelevant reasons **(practice of sexual orientation comes to mind).** To say that spending 15-20 minutes donating blood at a pre-selected location at a pre-selected time is equal to finding a volunteer opportunity, signing up for it, and spending 2 hours volunteering is simply unfair. [/QUOTE] Hadn’t thought of that one, but you’re absolutely right. Add to it veterans status and national origin - I can’t donate because I was stationed in Europe for two years in the 1990s, and this ban affects people who lived there as civilians as well, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/33 "2008-02-27T21:50:00Z")
About the difference in blood giving/volunteer time: Time to donate blood: 5 min to fill out forms, detailing in writing many things that could make you ineligible 5-10 minutes to review forms with intake nurse and be given blood pressure and blood iron tests 15-20 minutes to give blood 20 minutes to sit drinking your orange juice in full view of everyone that’s 50 minutes, plus any waiting in line time. Considering that the blood bank probably doesn’t want to manage a volunteer time of less than two hours, the two options sound pretty even. Especially when they’re going to need volunteers to pass out the orange juice for the campus collection site. A quick student might be able to arrange to have their volunteer stint right on campus. The blood donation may be a little shorter, but you do get a poke in the arm and you have to sit and answer a series of “have you ever had sex with anyone who. . .” questions. I think it evens out. Oh, and you get a poke in the finger for the iron level test. Has anyone suggested an alternative, on-campus volunteer stint to the professer and had it denied? If he’s open to other options, then I’m not seeing much connection to basic psych, but I have no problem with the idea of extra credit for field activities. The prof would be doing everyone a favor if he provided a list of disqualifications ahead of time. I think you have to not have taken aspirin within 48 hours, but don’t take my word for it. Do not ever lie in order to give blood. Very. Bad. Thing. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/34 "2008-02-27T21:59:51Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Don’t you realize, two hours of community service or volunteering is much more of a burden than giving blood for 15-20 minutes. You should be ashamed of yourself, it’s almost as if you’re forcing your students to give blood instead of helping out the community. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] You must have some pretty fast veins if giving blood only takes 15-20 minutes for you. I’m barely through the filling out form/interview process in that time. Plus, there’s the waiting between every step of the blood donating process and followed by the mandatory “don’t even _think_ of leaving for the next 15 minutes” time (or “juice and cookie time” for the more positive-minded) tacked on at the very end. In my experience, donating blood takes about an hour. Equating it to an hour of other volunteer work doesn’t bother me that much. Using it as a small extra-credit incentive (say .05 maybe even .1 on a 4-point scale) doesn’t bother me, because I’ve seen extra-credit given for lots of frivolous things, and the student who doesn’t want to give time or blood can still just do the assigned work and be competitive. But 1/3 of a point is too much, as is the amount of time that the prof requires for non-blood volunteer work. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/35 "2008-02-27T22:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] Do not ever lie in order to give blood. Very. Bad. Thing. [/QUOTE] Can you elaborate on why you believe this to be a “very. bad. thing.”? I’ll concede that the ends probably don’t justify the means for a person who fibs to put their conscience at ease, but consider: One of the Red Cross’ criteria for ineligibility is > [@](#): > > are a male who has had sexual contact with another male, even once, since 1977 Their reason for this exclusion falls under the “HIV/AIDS” category in the list of disqualifications. Now, assuming nothing else disqualifies you, say you received oral sex from a man on January 1, 1977. In the past ten years, you have had HIV tests performed every six months, and are HIV free. Part of me says don’t donate. An even larger part of me says that fibbing on this criteria does not constitute a “very. bad. thing.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/36 "2008-02-27T22:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] Please provide a cite where the red cross or the college went out with guns and forced people to donate blood. Extra credit is voluntary at least where I went to school. Need a little more straw? [/QUOTE] It’s not a strawman argument to point out that any argument that _could_ be used to justify any damn thing is probably a poor metric upon which to assess the ethics of an action. This remains equally true whether or not anyone _has_ used the argument that way; it’s pointing out a flaw in the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/37 "2008-02-27T22:06:38Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] Giving class credit for blood donations is unethical. Class credit is the teacher’s certification of your competence in the subject matter. We have a right to expect competence on the part of dentists and pilots and civil engineers strictly on the basis of their educational credentials and in the absence of any other information. … [/QUOTE] They were psychology majors–no harm, no foul. 😉 Seriously though… Entirely inappropriate from all angles suggested above. You tell a student who has mastered the subject, near the end of the course, that the rest of her classmates are going to catch up with her unless she agrees to an (albeit minor) medical procedure? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/38 "2008-02-27T22:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=atomicbadgerrace] Can you elaborate on why you believe this to be a “very. bad. thing.”? I’ll concede that the ends probably don’t justify the means for a person who fibs to put their conscience at ease, but consider: One of the Red Cross’ criteria for ineligibility is Their reason for this exclusion falls under the “HIV/AIDS” category in the list of disqualifications. Now, assuming nothing else disqualifies you, say you received oral sex from a man on January 1, 1977. In the past ten years, you have had HIV tests performed every six months, and are HIV free. Part of me says don’t donate. An even larger part of me says that fibbing on this criteria does not constitute a “very. bad. thing.” [/QUOTE] I realize it -says- “sexual contact”, but can’t “anal” be inferred? ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/39 "2008-02-27T22:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] About the difference in blood giving/volunteer time: Time to donate blood: 5 min to fill out forms, detailing in writing many things that could make you ineligible 5-10 minutes to review forms with intake nurse and be given blood pressure and blood iron tests 15-20 minutes to give blood 20 minutes to sit drinking your orange juice in full view of everyone that’s 50 minutes, plus any waiting in line time. [/QUOTE] **Yllaria** , honestly now, wouldn’t you find it at all unfair if your classmates had this option but you didn’t. Instead, to get the same benefit, you had to serve beverages at a blood bank, pick up trash along a highway, clean dishes at a homeless kitchen, or some such thing for more than twice as long. Even if the efforts lasted the same amount of time, the efforts themselves are not equal. If I stocked cans at a food bank for two hours, do you think it should count if I spent the majority of the time just sitting there like a blood donor? (Don’t get me wrong. I applaud blood donors. I wish I could be one again.) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394/40 "2008-02-27T22:30:19Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] It’s not a strawman argument to point out that any argument that _could_ be used to justify any damn thing is probably a poor metric upon which to assess the ethics of an action. This remains equally true whether or not anyone _has_ used the argument that way; it’s pointing out a flaw in the argument. [/QUOTE] Unless you can back up this statement > [@](#): > > grabbing people off the street and taking their blood against their will it is a strawman. A huge strawman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ethical-to-give-class-credit-for-donating-blood/439394.md?page=3)