Is it ethical to give class credit for donating blood?

[Ravenman]

@ForumBot

So yes, it did take me a few extra minutes to figure out that I might be a risk–and when the little hamster upstairs started running on the treadmill, I brought it up to the charge nurse.

I’d just like to say, good for you. I think you did the right thing in bringing it up, even though it was a PITA for you to wait around all that time only to be turned away. A tip of my hat for your honesty.

And there is a difference between giving extra credit to entice students to do community service and giving better grades in exchange for sexual favors. The first, as I said before, is unprofessional but in the end, an actual selfless act is benefiting society. The latter is a purely selfish act that is not only unprofessional but blatantly unethical. In other words, just because Robin Hood is a thief, that doesn’t make him the moral equivalent of Machine Gun Kelly or Michael Milken.

[begbert2]

@susan

I don’t see sleeping with a student and giving students two extra credit options that benefit their community as the same thing at all. I don’t see the difference as being one of degree, but then, I don’t see the blood donation/community service option as unethical.

I don’t see blood donation/community service as unethical either; however, its ethicality is only vaguely relevant to the topic. The method the professor is using to try to make the blood donation happen is unethical itself. That’s not undone by the fact the end result is a good one. (Which is what “The end does not justify the means”, means, in a nutshell.)

You may think that the end does justify the means, but down that path lies evil.

[Geek_Mecha]

@susan

I don’t see sleeping with a student and giving students two extra credit options that benefit their community as the same thing at all. I don’t see the difference as being one of degree, but then, I don’t see the blood donation/community service option as unethical.

If you believe that the purpose of this extra-credit offering is to win the department competition (and I mostly do), then the fact that donating blood benefits the community is incidental. The self-serving nature of both are what makes them comparable.

[ManiacMan]

@Rick

You get a bruise. They probably will feel better than a patient who has to postpone surgery due to a lack of available blood feels. Like this cancer patient.
It might do some of these self absorbed college kids good to roll up their sleeve and give a unit.

Ok…a bruise? That’s it? You sure about that? Just a bruise, huh?

[Inner_Stickler]

@ManiacMan

Ok…a bruise? That’s it? You sure about that? Just a bruise, huh?

All the literature I’ve seen on blood donation has listed light-headedness, dizziness, bruising of the needle site, and/or a decrease in energy as possible side effects. Nothing too traumatic. If you are aware of any other common side effects I would love to hear about them.

[begbert2]

@susan

I don’t see sleeping with a student and giving students two extra credit options that benefit their community as the same thing at all. I don’t see the difference as being one of degree, but then, I don’t see the blood donation/community service option as unethical.

Another fact about this comparison occurred to me that I thought relevant:

You (indirectly) assert that a teacher sleeping with their student is unethical, and I agree that that is how such a liaison is perceived. But, why is such a liaison perceived as unethical? Let’s presume that were talking college here, with legal adults all around. So, the unethicality doesn’t come from pedophilia. Their might be societal or religious feelings on the subject, but they don’t fully explain it; we perceive relationships between teacher and student as being far more suspect than we do other relationships between a man and woman of the same ages, even talking all other factors into account. So, why? What’s the disparity?

…The answer is, it’s because of the concern that the teacher used his position of authority over the student to compel them to the act. That is, the inappropriate use of the authority is the problem. Not the sex. Or the car washing. Or the house painting. Or the blood donation. If compelling the students to do any of these is unethical, then all such compulsions must therefore be unethical. Unless you want to abandon all rationality in determining what actions are ethical or not, anyway.

[atomicbadgerrace]

@begbert2

…The answer is, it’s because of the concern that the teacher used his position of authority over the student to compel them to the act. That is, the inappropriate use of the authority is the problem. Not the sex. Or the car washing. Or the house painting. Or the blood donation. If compelling the students to do any of these is unethical, then all such compulsions must therefore be unethical. Unless you want to abandon all rationality in determining what actions are ethical or not, anyway.

I don’t find a professor sleeping with a student to be inherently unethical. When that turns into the professor trading that for grades, it becomes unethical. When it’s the result of the teacher using his position of authority to compel the act, it becomes unethical.

[begbert2]

@atomicbadgerrace

I don’t find a professor sleeping with a student to be inherently unethical. When that turns into the professor trading that for grades, it becomes unethical. When it’s the result of the teacher using his position of authority to compel the act, it becomes unethical.

Exactly!

[brickbacon]

@Rick

This tells me there are a ton of people out there that are eligible to donate and choose not to because they might get a bruise (so what?), or it hurts(no it doesn’t), or their cat has a fur ball or whatever shitty excuse they choose to use. To those people I say suck it up, be an adult and go give a unit. It won’t kill you and you will save a life.

Exactly. As an aside, I think it’s important that this message gets across even if we can’t come to some agreement on the ethics of the situation being discussed. If you can donate blood, please do. Blood, platelet, and bone marrow donations help countless numbers of people, and it’s such as easy thing to do to help another person in need. Especially since many of us will end up in an accident or a situation where we are in need of blood, platelets, or bone marrow.

[brickbacon]

@atomicbadgerrace

I don’t find a professor sleeping with a student to be inherently unethical. When that turns into the professor trading that for grades, it becomes unethical. When it’s the result of the teacher using his position of authority to compel the act, it becomes unethical.

But if there is nothing inherently unethical about the act, how do you differentiate that from any other acts a teachers uses his authority to compel? I would go back to the idea of whether one feels extra credit is unethical in and of itself.

[atomicbadgerrace]

@brickbacon

But if there is nothing inherently unethical about the act, how do you differentiate that from any other acts a teachers uses his authority to compel? I would go back to the idea of whether one feels extra credit is unethical in and of itself.

I’m not sure I understand your question. Can you provide an example?

[BrainFireBob]

To the gent mentioning showing his voter registration card for extra credit in poli sci class-

It’s poli sci class, and having that card demonstrates theoretical practice (participation in political spheres by voting in a government election) of the subject matter. Extra credit.

If this was a course in civic service or some similar class- social responsibility, etc.- then it’s related to the subject manner, and providing proof of participation is demonstration of practice of the principles of the course. Likewise offering credit to attending lectures being given related to the subject being taught- I was offered extra credit for attending a global warming panel discussion while in a thermodynamics and statistical mechanics class. While taking a class in statistics and mathematical theory, I received extra credit for attending a lecture on the mathematics used by Escher- wonders, miracles, and I forget the third term for the kinds of symmetry and reflection he used in his work. There’s a mathematical derivation I have notes on telling you how many kinds are possible (Wonders are, as I recall, repeating designs that have absolutely no symmetry whatsoever, or “0” points- hence “oooh” or “wonder.” Mathematicians are whimsical even if they’re not necessarily verbally clever.). Point is, this blood drive has no relationship whatsoever to the class, and to be able to affect their GPA at all is an abuse of the power and position of teaching. The departmental competition cinches it, and makes it an offense that should be reportable to a dean of the relevant college.

[atomicbadgerrace]

BrainFireBob, I agree with you. I think showing a voter registration card is an excellent opportunity for a Poli Sci class professor to offer extra credit. My only caveat would be that the professor would need to find something equally fair to offer to those students who would be unable to obtain one – foreign students, a 17 year old in the class, etc.

Point is, this blood drive has no relationship whatsoever to the class, and to be able to affect their GPA at all is an abuse of the power and position of teaching. The departmental competition cinches it, and makes it an offense that should be reportable to a dean of the relevant college.

I agree 100%. You know, the more I’ve pondered this since this thread began, the more I feel that it should be brought to someone’s attention. I’m sure the professor had the best of intentions in mind when offering this exercise – after all, we need blood, right?

I’m not sure how the OP feels, but if I were in the position, I would sit down and discuss it with the professor in an entirely non-confrontational way. Just explain that I felt that the offer was inappropriate and unrelated to the class. But, you’re right about one thing - the departmental competition pretty much answers the question of whether there’s an underlying agenda. If the professor was unreceptive, I would have no qualms about discussing it with someone of a higher authority.

[irishgirl]

Well, no, it’s not ethical because it is discriminatory to pregnant women, gay men, those with certain medical conditions, lifestyle choices and religious beliefs.

Everyone who cannot donate blood or whose blood is not acceptable to the Red Cross is not eligible for the extra credit, that list includes:

Jehovah’s Witnessness
People who weigh less than 50kgs
Anaemics
Those with blood bourne diseases
Those who are on medications preventing them from donating blood
Pregnant women
Those with a sexual preference or lifestyle that prevents them donating blood
Those who have travelled to a malaria endemic area in the last year
Those who are at risk from nvCJD
Those with new tattoos
Those who have donated blood too recently to donate again

If the only reason you can’t get the credit is because you can’t donate blood, and the only reason you can’t donate blood because you’re a a gay man or a pregnant woman…well, it’s not ethical, is it?

Don’t suggest donating blood anyway and then putting a sticker on it telling them not to use it- that’s a waste of everyone’s time and resources, and there is always a risk that the unusable blood will get used. It’s still not feasible for the visibly pregnant, anaemic, or the too slim as the Red Cross simply will NOT allow them to donate.

Also, if there was a “get out” clause, whereby you could attain the extra credit by getting the Red Cross to sign something saying you aren’t able to donate, it still violates your right to privacy by alerting the professor to the fact that there is some reason why you are unable to donate blood.

I can understand the volunteering for 2 hours as an alternative, but again, what exactly the volunteering entailed might be discriminatory to some students such as those with disabilities, illnesses, certain religious beliefs or those who already have commitments and can’t spare the time (childcare/extra jobs etc). The mere fact that the student needed to volunteer rather than give blood might require them giving the prof personal or private information that he has no right to.

Better just to stand up and say “Giving blood is a really good thing to do. The blood wagon is in town, we’re seeing which department can give the most, let’s show them how great this department is! I encourage everyone who is able to do so to give blood”.

No coercion, no “purchasing” of blood products, lots of free will.

[begbert2]

@atomicbadgerrace

BrainFireBob, I agree with you. I think showing a voter registration card is an excellent opportunity for a Poli Sci class professor to offer extra credit. My only caveat would be that the professor would need to find something equally fair to offer to those students who would be unable to obtain one – foreign students, a 17 year old in the class, etc.

The one (other) caveat I have is, if the situation is “Does anyone here have a voter card? You guys do? Five points for you!” is that the reward is predicated on behavior prior to the class, with no warning whatsoever to allow those who hadn’t been a voter previously to jump on the extra-credit bandwagon. I’m not sure that this would be an ethical issue, but it sure would be a cheap shot against the unwarned and unprepared, especially if you simply left your voter card in your other pants that day.

[WhyNot]

Rick, I understand this is a subject dear to your heart, but you’re coming off as a bit…uh…too vehement to win converts in this thread.

I’ve spent a lot of time as an educated lay-person interested in medicine and health. I don’t claim any specialized knowledge, but as far as people outside the medical industry go, my data banks are full to fairly brimming with useless (and sometimes useful) medical information. And I had no idea that folliculitis (a localized infection) made one ineligible to give blood.

That’s exactly WHY they have those questionnaires - because most of us don’t know what every contraindication is. So, yes, we have to sit there for an hour to find out that our layover in Heathrow a decade ago “counts” as visiting England (or not, I don’t know, that was a hypothetical.)

“not in perfect health”? Who the hell is? I ran a clinic for 5 years, giving students practice on clients, and we’d often drag our friends and family in, sick or not, so we’d have enough warm bodies to go 'round. You want to know how many of these people who came in saying, “nope, I’m fine! Nothing wrong with me, no sirree - healthy as a horse!” were, in fact, actually suffering from nothing at all? One. One man, out of hundreds, in 5 years, who (whom?) our students could find absolutely nothing wrong with. If “in perfect health” is indeed the requirement for donating blood, then I think I see the reason for the blood shortage…

ForumBot, I hope you saw how big a deal blood donation isn’t, and when you’re back to tip-top, you go back in to donate. A young healthy body like yours is the ideal donor - you probably won’t even notice the lack of blood cells for a few days.

[D_Odds]

@Rick

No I have nothing against hip hop or you walking on my lawn. There are four things I find boggling about your statement:

First I would expect anyone with three functioning brain cells to understand that doctors don’t prescribe antibiotics to healthy people. If you had a script for antibiotics, you are not in perfect health.

Secondly I just find it almost impossible to believe that someone could graduate high school, and attend college not knowing that antibiotics are prescribed to fight bacterial, fungal, or infections from protozoa. IOW doctors don’t give antibiotics to healthy people. Were you absent the day they covered the Germ Theory?

Thirdly, donated blood is a lot like antibiotics. Doctors don’t give it to healthy people. People who receive blood are very sick often with compromised or suppressed immune systems.

Finally I find it impossible to believe that you did not connect the dots in points one, two and three and realize that giving blood that has a bacterial, fungal or protozoa infections in it to a sick person is a really bad idea. Bad on toast.

It really is taking longer than we thought.

They prescribe (or used to prescribe, as it has been over 20 years since I had any) oral and topical antibiotics to treate acne. Now, we all know the scourge that acne is to the recipients of donated blood. It is right up there with variant CJD (mad cow disease), which is the reason I can’t donate (same reason as Mr. Moto). Antibiotics, alone, are not be a reason for disqualification. From the American Red Cross:

Antibiotics
A donor with an infection should not donate. The reason for antibiotic use must be evaluated to determine if the donor has a bacterial infection that could be transmissible by blood.

Acceptable after finishing oral antibiotics for an infection (bacterial or viral). Acceptable 7 days after an antibiotic injection for an infection. Acceptable if you are taking antibiotics to prevent an infection, for example, following dental procedures or for acne. Antibiotics for acne do not disqualify you from donating. If you have a temperature above 99.5 F, you may not donate.