# Is it even worth it for Democrats to try to convert Trump supporters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520 "2017-07-31T17:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/41 "2017-08-02T03:39:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Interesting article here](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/08/what_rural_wisconsin_voters_think_of_donald_trump.html) on a professor who has been studying Trump supporters in Wisconsin for a year. > > As a good professor he doesn’t come out and say directly that these voters are racist yahoos. But they obviously are. They hate the cities because the cities are doing better and they don’t deserve to because, well, you know, Them. They want money to be spent in their areas, even though they already get a disproportional share and refuse to believe it. They want respect without giving any respect in return. They’re good, ordinary, salt-of-the-earth, hard working deplorables. > > We are not like them. We will never and can never be like them. The world is changing in ways that will never be to their benefit. They hate that and want it to stop and are taking it out on people who stand to benefit from change. > > You can’t logic or reason people out of that mindset. There is nothing that can be given them to change the future, nothing that will bring back the old ways, nothing that will turn the world majority white. All that can be done is outnumber them as they dwindle and stop giving them the power to hurt the rest of America politically. > > As was said, we can’t win until we understand that. Do not compromise with them. Do not believe in bipartisanship. Do not abandon a single liberal or progressive position. Get the people who are on our side to vote in proportional numbers. Do it with positives that make their hate obvious. Crush them politically, in every race for every office at every level. Exactly right, if someone is still a Trump supporter at this stage, after all that has happened, there is no reaching them. They are not a vote to get, but a contagion to be contained. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/42 "2017-08-02T03:40:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Bang up job you’re doing so far. :rolleyes: Absolutely. I’ve said it here often: the Republicans did their job of creating and exploiting a base while the Democrats gave up on half the country. I was against nominating Clinton. I wanted fresh faces to take us into a rapidly changing future. I got none of that. I’d almost given up on the Dems being minimally competent. But your side saved us. Your lack of competence make Democrats look like John Galt. You scraped rock bottom and brought up the worms and slime that lived underneath. You created the Resistance movement. Now all the Democrats need are some basic local organizers, a ton of money, and some compelling national faces. OK, I’m laughing too. But every week of Trump is the worst week ever for a President. The Republicans stand up every single day and proudly pronounce they have no morals, no conscience, and no spines. While that’s delightful as schadenfreude it’s no way to govern a country. That’s bound to explode. I know people keep saying that and in the long run we’re all dead. But the country is really, truly explosive in a way I haven’t seen since Nixon. And in retort you’ll ask how that turned out for the left. Well, we lost all the battles and won the war. The country now accepts as the unchangeable norm everything that was too radical to be mentioned out loud in the 1960s. That will happen again, because the future works in only one direction. This time, though, I expect to win some of the battles as well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/43 "2017-08-02T05:31:13Z")
They will “convert” themselves, because they aren’t going to get what they demanded and think they “won”. With any luck at all, they will split into two or more mutually hostile sets of “true” believers. They won’t “convert” to liberal/lefty, 'cause they hate our guts. Don’t much matter, I reckon. The big bloc of available power is those people being roused from their comfortable nullity by the madness of King Orange. The Apathy Party has been more the enemy of progress than the Republicans could ever dream of being. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/44 "2017-08-02T06:32:43Z")
No. But the dems now have the dilemma of appealing to two different types of voters within their base: moderates and leftists, and they have to work at uniting the two in their support. They have to balance carving out a plan and a message that’s neither too centrist (which will read as Republican lite to leftists) nor too “out there” for the moderates. A very tricky feat to achieve. Republicans on the other hand have the luxury of going as extreme in their conservatism as they want and not lose voters. If anything, their extremism makes them even more popular amongst their ilk. The Dems have absolutely nothing to gain trying to reach out to Trump voters. They would literally have to abandon everything that differentiates them from Trump and Republican ideology. Obviously this would not be remotely ideal and would be an instant failure of a strategy. They’re much better served repairing themselves and regaining the faith of disgruntled Democrat voters. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/45 "2017-08-02T08:26:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Interesting article here](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/08/what_rural_wisconsin_voters_think_of_donald_trump.html) on a professor who has been studying Trump supporters in Wisconsin for a year. > > As a good professor he doesn’t come out and say directly that these voters are racist yahoos. But they obviously are. No, I would not be comfortable saying this is obvious. I think it’s complicated. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these folks who vote for Scott Walker would also vote for a minority governor who is a carbon copy of him policywise. Which doesn’t exclude the possibility of racism on the part of many. I’m just saying (this goes for anyone) if you cavalierly generalize about those in most rural areas in his country being racist, be prepared to have it backfire on you and to fuel their disdain, and you might alienate some malleable people from considering your camp to boot. At the end of the day most people act in their perceived self interest and as such widespread racism isn’t usually obvious because it is not in their self interest to openly display it regardless of whether they even are. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They hate the cities because the cities are doing better and they don’t deserve to because, well, you know, Them. They want money to be spent in their areas, even though they already get a disproportional share and refuse to believe it. They want respect without giving any respect in return. They’re good, ordinary, salt-of-the-earth, hard working deplorables. > > We are not like them. We will never and can never be like them. The world is changing in ways that will never be to their benefit. They hate that and want it to stop and are taking it out on people who stand to benefit from change. > > You can’t logic or reason people out of that mindset. There is nothing that can be given them to change the future, Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/46 "2017-08-02T08:27:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Bang up job you’re doing so far. :rolleyes: Word. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/47 "2017-08-02T09:41:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Long term, the only real solution is to emulate the Republicans and build support up from local elections to national ones. Find some solid positives and ways to make differences. People want competence and solutions. The Republicans currently offer neither. It remains to be seen whether the Democrats can get their act together and become the party of success. They need a few wins now to build on. But the Republicans are providing them with such a huge chin to land a fist on that liberals are going to be sick if the blow isn’t delivered. This is a bit of a mess of contradictions. The reasons republicans are winning is not ground-up local support. And if people want competence and solutions, why do the election results imply exactly the opposite? the reason the republicans are winning, and the thing I pray we don’t need to emulate to start winning, basically boils down to Fox News, Breitbart, and the like. The existence of an entirely separate media economy with little to no interest in or understanding of the truth, willing to act as propaganda machines. You remember the night that Trump shared classified info with the Russians? The big story on /r/The\_Donald was the same as on Hannity and most right-wing sources: the bogus Seth Rich conspiracy theory. [They’ve successfully created a closed loop of partisan nonsense](https://www.vox.com/2017/5/16/15646286/russians-leakers-fox-news-masterclass-spin-trump-scandal), and people who get sucked into that generally aren’t interested in news sources that aren’t hard-right, and the hard-right news sources aren’t going to talk about how Trump is a daily catastrophe for our country. We don’t want that. Most of us, anyways. But can we afford not to? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/48 "2017-08-02T10:38:22Z")
That’s the core question facing America in the first half of the 21st century: is the conservative movement going to pull the rest of the country down with them? Is it just suicide, or murder suicide? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/49 "2017-08-02T13:15:41Z")
Lots of fiery rhetoric here. Still not much on how you intend to accomplish anything, though. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/50 "2017-08-02T13:46:05Z")
Not sure we can, like I said, it might be murder-suicide. Have you seen the recent polling that shows red state America increasingly distrusts a college education? That’s really the last thing we needed from them, casting off the one avenue to ensure that they’re not a permanent burden to society. If there’s one thing you don’t need to prosper in the 21st century, it’s an education. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/51 "2017-08-02T14:23:55Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Lots of fiery rhetoric here. Still not much on how you intend to accomplish anything, though. Just turn 1% of the Trump voters in the upper Midwest, and get a couple percentage increase in the Democratic turn out, and we can win the next Presidential race. Running someone better than Hillary (not to blame her, but she had high negatives) should do that without much effort. Trump (if he’s still around) will have worn out his welcome and his empty promises will start to sound pretty hollow by 2020. Getting Congress back will be more difficult. But Trump may be sufficient motivation if he keeps up this shitstorm of an administration. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/52 "2017-08-02T15:05:52Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Trump said rude things, made fun of, or found fault with: women, veterans, POWs, handicapped people, Muslims, immigrants, the press, liberals, etc. All of who might vote. > > It’s very telling when someone blames Clinton for insults. Are you saying Clinton didn’t insult anyone? Or is it back to the old, “It’s ok if our side does it.” routine? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/53 "2017-08-02T15:09:12Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > No, I would not be comfortable saying this is obvious. I think it’s complicated. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these folks who vote for Scott Walker would also vote for a minority governor who is a carbon copy of him policywise. You’re missing a subtlety, I think. Racism has long been nuanced by a blanket dislike/fear of the undifferentiated mass of Them and the possibility of individuals being not like Them. That was capsulated in “a credit to your race.” It allowed well-meaning people to not think of themselves as racist while still acting that way as part of the majority white mass. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is a bit of a mess of contradictions. The reasons republicans are winning is not ground-up local support. And if people want competence and solutions, why do the election results imply exactly the opposite? > > the reason the republicans are winning, and the thing I pray we don’t need to emulate to start winning, basically boils down to Fox News, Breitbart, and the like. The right has created a complete self-enclosed mirrorball around their followers. That creates a media environment in which the political component can flourish. The political component depends on control at all levels. Thinking that wining the White House is sufficient is a fatal mistake. The Republicans have over 30 governorships and as many legislatures. The gerrymandering that helps them control Congress is built on that foundation. The defiance to federal regulations is built on that. The punishing morality laws are built on that. The war on science is built on that. If Clinton had won with this Congress, the conservsosphere would be foaming at the mouth every second and the Democratic brand would be destroyed for a generation. Being forced to defend Trump and the insane clown Congress is bitter medicine they need to choke down daily. That’s the opportunity I’m saying Democrats need to exploit. No Alex Jones is needed to do so. > [@Scumpup](#): > > Lots of fiery rhetoric here. Still not much on how you intend to accomplish anything, though. > [@John F. Kennedy](#): > > We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win. Just out of curiosity, what has your side been accomplishing? Other than trampling various types of minorities, of course. I grant you’re great at that. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/54 "2017-08-02T15:14:26Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Are you saying Clinton didn’t insult anyone? Or is it back to the old, “It’s ok if our side does it.” routine? Are you talking about the deplorables thing? That wasn’t an insult. Racists, sexists and homophobes are, in fact, deplorable. That was just a statement of truth. Anyone that felt insulted by that either didn’t understand what she said, or identified themselves as one of those things that she called deplorable. A racist being offended for being called a racist is not the same as an insult. The truth hurts sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/55 "2017-08-02T16:19:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The Republicans stand up every single day and proudly pronounce they have no morals, no conscience, and no spines. I’m curious what this is referring to. I assume you meant it as something more symbolic or figurative than literal, but even symbolically, I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Was there some specific action / announcement by Republicans you had in mind when you wrote this line? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/56 "2017-08-02T16:22:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m curious what this is referring to. I assume you meant it as something more symbolic or figurative than literal, but even symbolically, I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Was there some specific action / announcement by Republicans you had in mind when you wrote this line? I can’t speak for **Exapno Mapcase** , but in my view, the vast majority of Republican politicians who so far support Trump is an example of them “proudly pronounc[ing] they have no morals, no conscience, and no spines.” Some things are indefensible. The Trump presidency is one of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/57 "2017-08-02T16:24:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’re missing a subtlety, I think. Racism has long been nuanced by a blanket dislike/fear of the undifferentiated mass of Them and the possibility of individuals being not like Them. That was capsulated in “a credit to your race.” It allowed well-meaning people to not think of themselves as racist while still acting that way as part of the majority white mass. > The right has created a complete self-enclosed mirrorball around their followers. That creates a media environment in which the political component can flourish. The political component depends on control at all levels. Thinking that wining the White House is sufficient is a fatal mistake. The Republicans have over 30 governorships and as many legislatures. The gerrymandering that helps them control Congress is built on that foundation. The defiance to federal regulations is built on that. The punishing morality laws are built on that. The war on science is built on that. If Clinton had won with this Congress, the conservsosphere would be foaming at the mouth every second and the Democratic brand would be destroyed for a generation. Being forced to defend Trump and the insane clown Congress is bitter medicine they need to choke down daily. That’s the opportunity I’m saying Democrats need to exploit. No Alex Jones is needed to do so. > > Just out of curiosity, what has your side been accomplishing? Other than trampling various types of minorities, of course. I grant you’re great at that. My side? I didn’t vote Trump nor have I ever voted R in a state or national election. I just find myself no longer self-identifying as a D . The party has become a ridiculous, ineffective parody of itself. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/58 "2017-08-02T16:26:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is a bit of a mess of contradictions. The reasons republicans are winning is not ground-up local support. And if people want competence and solutions, why do the election results imply exactly the opposite? > > the reason the republicans are winning, and the thing I pray we don’t need to emulate to start winning, basically boils down to Fox News, Breitbart, and the like. The existence of an entirely separate media economy with little to no interest in or understanding of the truth, willing to act as propaganda machines. You remember the night that Trump shared classified info with the Russians? The big story on /r/The\_Donald was the same as on Hannity and most right-wing sources: the bogus Seth Rich conspiracy theory. [They’ve successfully created a closed loop of partisan nonsense](https://www.vox.com/2017/5/16/15646286/russians-leakers-fox-news-masterclass-spin-trump-scandal), and people who get sucked into that generally aren’t interested in news sources that aren’t hard-right, and the hard-right news sources aren’t going to talk about how Trump is a daily catastrophe for our country. > > We don’t want that. Most of us, anyways. But can we afford not to? There are people on the right that believe just as fervently as you do that their media sources tell them the truth and that it is their political opponents that operate in a “closed loop of partisan nonsense”. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/59 "2017-08-02T16:28:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are people on the right that believe just as fervently as you do that their media sources tell them the truth and that it is their political opponents that operate in a “closed loop of partisan nonsense”. Yes, but they’re wrong about that. Facts matter. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/60 "2017-08-02T16:31:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are people on the right that believe just as fervently as you do that their media sources tell them the truth and that it is their political opponents that operate in a “closed loop of partisan nonsense”. But that can be shown to be objectively false, since the American mainstream media’s news is the same news as that of every other outlet in the world, even from countries where our liberal/conservative split has little to no meaning. Pure propaganda factories like Russia and North Korea may be exceptions to this and hew more closely to conservosphere’s blathering, but that simply reinforces how false their news bubble is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520.md?page=4)