# Is it even worth it for Democrats to try to convert Trump supporters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520 "2017-07-31T17:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/121 "2017-08-03T07:15:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Because she is _a_ Democrat that appears to support extreme business regulation. > > Once again, the question was asked: “What democrats vote for … “regulating businesses to death”?” Maxine Waters is one answer. > > I certainly don’t claim that she represents all Democrats, or even your average Democrat, but she is one Democrat that appears to meet the criteria of **QuickSilver** ’s question, and she happens to be one that did me the favor of declaring as much on camera in a funny and memorable clip. Right, but if you indignantly ask, after someone talks about how republicans believe that policy should be based off the fact that women who get raped can’t get pregnant, for examples, and someone quotes Todd Akin, are you going to be satisfied, or are you going to rightfully point out that that’s got fuck-all to do with the actual republican party platform? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/122 "2017-08-03T07:27:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Right, but if you indignantly ask, after someone talks about how republicans believe that policy should be based off the fact that women who get raped can’t get pregnant, for examples, and someone quotes Todd Akin, are you going to be satisfied, or are you going to rightfully point out that that’s got fuck-all to do with the actual republican party platform? Neither **QuickSilver** ’s question, nor my response, had “fuck-all to do with the actual [democrat] party platform”. Feel free to point out that Maxine Waters is a shitty democrat if you like, I certainly won’t stop you (in fact, I’ll probably agree with you). Personally, I try not to make a habit of “indignantly” asking for examples when one can be readily supplied that is quite obviously a member of my party. FWIW, I don’t believe **asahi** was trying to smear Democrats generally as anti-business or anti-military. His quote, that started this whole discussion was simply: > [@asahi](#): > > … The bigger question is, how would those on the far left if the Democrats had, let’s say a fresh face, someone not Clinton, who tried to make overtures by being ‘moderate’ or ‘centrist’ on some issues? I think that’s the bigger question. Will coastal liberals accept that their leader might not be from Chicago, San Francisco, or New England, but Iowa, Missouri, or Indiana? And that this candidate might talk about maintaining a strong military and that businesses don’t need to be regulated to death? It struck me as a rather genuine and positive post without snarkiness or malice. And **QuickSilver** ’s follow-up seemed more like a plea for specifics than anything “indignant”, but he did ask the question, and a ready answer popped into my mind, so I shared it. As I’ve already said, my answer wasn’t an attempt to smear _all_ Dems as anti-business either. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/123 "2017-08-03T11:03:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is why these conversations always go the way they do. People saying vague things that mean nothing to anyone. > > What democrats vote for a “weak military” and “regulating businesses to death”? > > What do republicans mean when they say they want a “strong military” and “deregulation”? > > How many tanks, planes and submarines are too many? How many are not enough? > > What specific regulations can we do without and which regulations are necessary to protect consumers? I agree that my post was somewhat vague. I guess what I was getting at is how would liberal democrats feel if their party’s next superstar were a white male war veteran who talked about maintaining a strong national defense and not a community organizer who apologized for America’s foreign policy misadventures? Note: like you, I hope we find a way to spend less on the military, gracefully exit from nation building, and invest more at home. What if said white male military veteran also disagreed with the more hardened liberal Democrats on regulation. One area that economists have expressed optimism with Trump is on rolling back business regulation - IIRC there are more federal regulations on business than at any point in American history. Economists I’ve seen/read are probably open to more taxation but they want less regulation in return. Suppose we had a white male military veteran who, to the delight of progressives, argued for increasing taxation on business and wealthy individuals and using that revenue for investment in infrastructure and healthcare, yet argued for some modest rollback of regulations. There has been much discussion about trying to convert Trump supporters, but which ones? Nobody’s going to convert abortion rights activists or people who listen to Alex Jones. But they absolutely can otherwise convert a fair number of educated businessmen, the self-employed, the start-up entrepreneurs, the suburban divorced single mother who busts ass waiting tables to raise three kids. I don’t think Democrats are going to be successful campaigning in major cities alone; they’re going to have to go to the places where they’ve felt increasingly uncomfortable over the past 10 years, which is mostly white rural and suburban America. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/124 "2017-08-03T11:53:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I agree that my post was somewhat vague. I guess what I was getting at is how would liberal democrats feel if their party’s next superstar were a white male war veteran who talked about maintaining a strong national defense and not a community organizer who apologized for America’s foreign policy misadventures? I don’t know about the liberal democrats, but I can tell you what conservatives would call him: “an out-of-touch ultraliberal from Taxachussetts”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/125 "2017-08-03T13:08:12Z")
That’s going to be a hard charge to make stick against Seth Moulton. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/126 "2017-08-03T13:29:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The people best able to slap some sense into Trump supporters are former Trump supporters, not Dems. > > Imagine the power in saying “Hey, _I’m just like you_, I had high hopes for the President and thought he was just what the country needed” before unleashing “Now let me tell me why I regret my vote .” > > Dems aren’t going to be able to offer this kind of politically correct candy coating because the vast majority saw him as nothing but bad from the very beginning. People who have always been anti-Trump can’t liken themselves to Trump supporters and come across as sincere; it would be a lie everybody can see through. > > What Dems should do is encourage an atmosphere that allows former Trump supporters to speak up and announce their change of hearts without being attacked. The more of them that come out of the closet, the more supporters will question themselves. Good point! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/127 "2017-08-03T13:50:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > BTW, I don’t believe this is correct. Your post appears to suggest that the “Maxine Waters, Closeted Socialist (calls herself a liberal) …” bit came from Fox News, that they captioned the video with that decription. AFAIK, that is not correct. That description appears to have been supplied by whomever runs [the JohnLockePolitics YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCViqVbbaxDn5cJGpwZmMCxw), and they don’t appear to have any formal position at / relationship with Fox News, except their reposting a clip from the network. Well, peachy keen! Then the misleading dishonesty that you posted was not the responsibility of Fox News! I am much relieved that such a beacon of candor and honesty is not besmirched! And when did _you_ know this? When you first offered this somewhat tainted citation, or after I bitched about it? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/128 "2017-08-03T15:04:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Right, but if you indignantly ask, after someone talks about how republicans believe that policy should be based off the fact that women who get raped can’t get pregnant, for examples, and someone quotes Todd Akin, are you going to be satisfied, or are you going to rightfully point out that that’s got fuck-all to do with the actual republican party platform? The problem for Republicans is that they have 50 state platforms, which often have let’s say colorful planks in them. There is seldom any difficulty in finding multiple examples of extreme beliefs espoused by multiple party leaders. Deplorable, I know. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/129 "2017-08-03T15:28:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, peachy keen! Then the misleading dishonesty that you posted was not the responsibility of Fox News! I am much relieved that such a beacon of candor and honesty is not besmirched! > > And when did _you_ know this? When you first offered this somewhat tainted citation, or after I bitched about it? Try being more accurate / honest with your attributions in the future, k? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/130 "2017-08-03T15:29:30Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The problem for Republicans is that they have 50 state platforms, which often have let’s say colorful planks in them. There is seldom any difficulty in finding multiple examples of extreme beliefs espoused by multiple party leaders. Deplorable, I know. Do you think there might also be examples of “extreme beliefs” in the Democrat’s 50 state platforms? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/131 "2017-08-03T15:59:01Z")
Sure. But the only people who actually read party platforms are simply looking for some cheap point to score in some cheap debate. Platform committees are ways to get the worst hotheads and ideologues out of the way while letting them feel important about it, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/132 "2017-08-03T16:46:52Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Fine. So let’s say that Obama twirled his mustache, cackled with malevolent glee, and told the “wildly false” whopper that…you might need different insurance. And the right goes back to that statement again and again and again because they’ve got nothing else. > > WHO THE FUCK CARES? I think we have hit the basic problem. A Republican says something - spin it as hard as you can against him and condemn it as the worst thing in the world. When Obama tells the Whopper of the Year for 2012, you yell that you don’t care. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/133 "2017-08-03T17:14:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Try being more accurate / honest with your attributions in the future, k? To recap: you posted something that inaccurately/dishonestly described Waters’s attributes. Elucidator called you on that, but mistook which entity was responsible for the inaccurate/dishonest attributes given to Waters. Your response, rather than to take your original cite to task, or to apologize for giving an inaccurate/dishonest cite, is to sneer at 'luci. Is that about right? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/134 "2017-08-03T17:50:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why do you post on this message board? You first, or did you forget to answer the question? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/135 "2017-08-03T18:22:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think there might also be examples of “extreme beliefs” in the Democrat’s 50 state platforms? Going strictly by the lack of right-wing media’s screaming about them 24/7 I’ll guess no. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/136 "2017-08-03T18:43:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think we have hit the basic problem. A Republican says something - spin it as hard as you can against him and condemn it as the worst thing in the world. When Obama tells the Whopper of the Year for 2012, you yell that you don’t care. > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan Anyone supporting the near-constant lying of Trump and then impugning Obama for one (1) has no credibility whatsoever. Disregards, Ace ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/137 "2017-08-03T20:00:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Anyone supporting the near-constant lying of Trump and then impugning Obama for one (1) has no credibility whatsoever. That’s just a restatement of what I said - **Timewinder** doesn’t care, and you won’t believe it. > [@](#): > > Disregards, > Ace Whatever, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/138 "2017-08-03T20:42:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > To recap: you posted something that inaccurately/dishonestly described Waters’s attributes. Elucidator called you on that, but mistook which entity was responsible for the inaccurate/dishonest attributes given to Waters. Your response, rather than to take your original cite to task, or to apologize for giving an inaccurate/dishonest cite, is to sneer at 'luci. > > Is that about right? What I posted was a YouTube video showing Maxine Waters’ bungled nationalization threat. I just grabbed the first video of that incident that I found. Bitching about the source, or the caption of the particular YouTube video, or the comments made in the video’s comment sections strikes me as stupid quibbling. It was worse because **elucidator** ’s stupid quibbling was also incorrect, and it was more annoying because he chose to call a link to Maxine Waters’ actual statement “the misleading dishonesty that you posted”, so yes, I sneered at him and I’m sneering at you now. The cite I was referring to was Maxine Waters’ statement to the Shell exec. That it happened to be embedded on a page with some particular characterization of her, or with comments that are uncharitable towards her, does not interest me. You should both take a lesson from [**QuickSilver** ’s grown-up response to it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20387525#post20387525). Now that I’ve bothered to type out this reply to you, I’m kind of curious: what about the cite, in particular, did you find “inaccurate/dishonest”? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/139 "2017-08-03T21:01:19Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > As a Seattle liberal, I’m perfectly happy with a Midwesterner. Obama was from Illinois, as I recall. … Yeah, he moved there. But us reasonable Musilim hatin’ Patriotic Patriots know better. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520/140 "2017-08-03T21:08:35Z")
Missed edit time: Obama claims to hail from Hawaii, but us gun-totin’ Muslim’ hatin’ yada-yada-yada. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-even-worth-it-for-democrats-to-try-to-convert-trump-supporters/792520.md?page=6)