# Is it ever acceptable for an NFL team to throw a game? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 12, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493 "2016-12-12T02:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/21 "2016-12-12T20:32:12Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > It’s ok to play the 2nd string and maybe not try your absolute hardest to win the game. > > I’ve had this conversation with a friend who, in all seriousness, would just forfeit the game. Why bother? Why risk injury even to backup players? Use the additional time to gameplan for the playoffs. After all, is the objective to go 14-2 or to win the Super Bowl? If the latter, why \*wouldn’t \*you just forfeit? That’s why Ohio State skipped the Big Ten title game. They’ll still go to the playoffs, so why not send Penn State to play Wisconsin, where OSU could rest its players. Good strategy! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/22 "2016-12-12T21:03:14Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Teams tank seasons on purpose all the time. It might not be the players, but the management may influence, for no other reason than to get a higher draft pick. They are thinking L O N G term. This is my thought. Look at the 49ers. They are the Browns’ biggest fans these days. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/23 "2016-12-12T22:14:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why? The spectators know the long term stakes in certain scenarios. Why not rest a Michael Jordan or a Rob Gronkowski if you get the playoff seeding you want? If I am a Pats fan and I see Gronk get hit low and his knee ruined for the season in a meaningless game I’d be upset. A few years ago that was the conventional wisdom. Instead Tom Coughlin had his 1st team play hard against the undefeated Patriots. Nearly beat them. The coach felt he needed the team in the proper state of mind and ready to play going into the playoffs. It worked out pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/24 "2016-12-13T01:02:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why? The spectators know the long term stakes in certain scenarios. Why not rest a Michael Jordan or a Rob Gronkowski if you get the playoff seeding you want? If I am a Pats fan and I see Gronk get hit low and his knee ruined for the season in a meaningless game I’d be upset. I have no issue with not fielding the best players you’ve got. Players need a rest and can’t play every game, but the players who are on the field should be doing their best to win. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/25 "2016-12-13T01:10:44Z")
If it is ok for a team to intentionally lose a game, what happens when it is in BOTH teams interests to lose the game? It would be farcical. The object of a game is to win it, so the players should be trying to win, or at the very least, trying NOT to lose. If a championship is setup in such a way that it is desirable to lose games then the championship needs to be revamped. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/26 "2016-12-13T17:19:06Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > what happens when it is in BOTH teams interests to lose the game? That would [never](http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/10/28/7084239/teams-score-five-own-goals-as-they-both-try-to-lose) [happen](http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/02/riverdale-smyrna-tanking-high-school)! ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/27 "2016-12-13T17:45:55Z")
The classic example of “playing cautiously rather than playing to win” was the 1982 World Cup match between West Germany and Austria. The way the tournament was set up back then, if West Germany won by 2 goals or more, West Germany and Algeria would advance to the next round; if Austria won or it was a draw, Austria and Algeria would advance; if West Germany won by one goal, West Germany and Austria would advance. West Germany scored after 10 minutes, and the next 80 consisted mainly of defensive soccer, as both teams realized that any attempt at serious offense might result in the other team controlling the ball and scoring the goal that knocked the other team out of the World Cup. You could say that Austria “threw the match”; almost needless to say, some changes were made for 1986 (for example, all of the final matches in a group now have to start at the same time, so no team will know any other team’s final group standing in advance). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/28 "2016-12-13T17:53:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > A few years ago that was the conventional wisdom. Instead Tom Coughlin had his 1st team play hard against the undefeated Patriots. Nearly beat them. The coach felt he needed the team in the proper state of mind and ready to play going into the playoffs. It worked out pretty well. ETA: Never mind, I completely messed up my analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/29 "2016-12-13T18:06:10Z")
There was a situation in 1977 where the Baltimore Colts pretty much lost on purpose (having a punt blocked late in the game) to the lowly Detroit Lions. It pretty much eliminated the Patriots (who needed an unlikely set of circumstances the next week to make the playoffs) and gave the Colts control of the tie breaker with Miami. The NFL and Pete Rozelle did their usual Sgt Schultz imitation. > **[Colts Were More Hated In 1970s Than Now](https://www.patsfans.com/articles/patriots/3163/Colts-Were-More-Hated-In-1970s-Than-Now.html)** > > This epitomized what the Colts meant to the Patriots back then. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/30 "2016-12-13T18:32:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > That would [never](http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/10/28/7084239/teams-score-five-own-goals-as-they-both-try-to-lose) [happen](http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/02/riverdale-smyrna-tanking-high-school)! That 2nd story is absolutely hilarious. A girl’s basketball team’s attempt to score in their own basket was thwarted by a 10 second violation. Props to the officials for calling out the coaches on their shenanigans. I don’t know how I’d put up with that if I were officiating. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/31 "2016-12-13T18:42:07Z")
In the NFL the winning team is credited with a 2-0 victory in case of a forfeit. I remember one time a few decades ago when the Redskins would make the playoffs if they won their final season game or, due to a tiebreaker based on points scored, lost by a small margin, but would be eliminated if they lost by a large margin. At the time there was some fan speculation that it might be a good idea to just forfeit to assure a playoff spot, but the NFL head office let it be know that there would be Very Serious Consequences (never specified) were the team to actually do this. If I remember correctly, the Redskins went on to win the game. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/32 "2016-12-13T19:41:04Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > ETA: Never mind, I completely messed up my analysis. Unfortunately for you the edits aren’t invisible to me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/33 "2016-12-13T21:23:32Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > It’s ok to play the 2nd string and maybe not try your absolute hardest to win the game. > > I’ve had this conversation with a friend who, in all seriousness, would just forfeit the game. Why bother? Why risk injury even to backup players? Use the additional time to gameplan for the playoffs. After all, is the objective to go 14-2 or to win the Super Bowl? If the latter, why \*wouldn’t \*you just forfeit? As mentioned above, the NFL would likely take measures to discourage that. Also, it’s possible that doing so could put the team involved in violation of its players" contracts. Depending on contract wording, intentionally forfeiting could be seen as a attempt to deny players their per game pay. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/34 "2016-12-13T22:00:27Z")
There is scoring, then the game, then the championship. It is okay to give up scoring to win the game, but it isn’t okay to give up the game to win the championship. We all agree that it is okay to give up some points if it means you’ll win the game. But yet, teams aren’t allowed to give up a game to win a championship. Why? If the ultimate goal is to win the championship, then if dropping a game is the best chance of doing that, why isn’t it okay? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/35 "2016-12-13T22:05:48Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > There is scoring, then the game, then the championship. It is okay to give up scoring to win the game, but it isn’t okay to give up the game to win the championship. We all agree that it is okay to give up some points if it means you’ll win the game. But yet, teams aren’t allowed to give up a game to win a championship. Why? If the ultimate goal is to win the championship, then if dropping a game is the best chance of doing that, why isn’t it okay? IMHO because modern-day mass-consumed sports is more about entertainment and marketing that the sport itself - it is about making money under the illusion of “sport”. If people knew teams were throwing games on purpose, for any reason, they would stop watching, and the NFL and advertisers would not make as much money. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/36 "2016-12-13T23:18:09Z")
The [Barbados-Grenada match](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados_4%E2%80%932_Grenada_(1994_Caribbean_Cup_qualification)) in 1994 probably should be mentioned here too. The wiki explains it well: basically, Barbados needed to win the match by 2 goals to advance, and OT goals counted double for goal differential. Barbados had a two goal lead until late, and then… > [@](#): > > In the 83rd minute, however, the game changed when Grenada scored a goal. This late goal would take Grenada through to the finals unless Barbados could score again. Barbados attempted to score for the next few minutes, but because they were unable to, they switched to an alternate strategy, of tying up the game so that they could try to achieve the two-goal margin in extra-time. In the 87th minute they stopped attacking, and the defender Terry Sealey and the goalkeeper Horace Stoute passed the ball between each other before intentionally scoring an own goal. > > Now the game was at 2–2, with just three minutes of normal time left. The Grenadian players caught on to Barbados’s plan, and realized that they would advance in the tournament by scoring a goal in either net. This left the match in the highly unusual position of no clear side of the field for one team versus the other, but rather one team trying to score a goal in either net, and the other team trying to defend both. **For the next three minutes, Barbadian players successfully defended both sides.** [Emphasis added] IMHO, **snowthx** has the right answer for why we don’t see overt tanking more often in professional sports. It’s not entertaining. EDIT: Oh, and since the Dallas Cowboys can seem to beat everyone in the NFL other than the Giants, could we see some chicanery so the Cowboys could get out of having to play them a third time in the playoffs? Not sure how that would work out, and I think the psychological damage from their coach lacking faith in their team would be a bad thing, but it’s something to idly keep in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/37 "2016-12-13T23:57:26Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > In cricket in 1992 World Cup, the Kiwis (New Zealand) are supposed to have deliberately lost their final game to Pakstan, to ensure that Australia were knocked out and NZ would play the Semi Final at home. …where on earth did you get that from? I remember this match well, and it most certainly wasn’t one that NZ went in to loose. Here are some of the team talking about the next game they played, the semi-final. > **[1992 World Cup: Oral history](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cricket/cricket-world-cup/cricket-world-cup-1992-oral-history-nz-v-pakistan-part-i/O2OFHLKIYTWRQ7LWZXMOREYS2M/?c_id=4&objectid=11398802)** > > On March 21, 1992, 46,000 jandal-wearing souls descended upon Eden Park full of expectation that New Zealand would beat Pakistan. [QUOTE=Warren Lees] The feeling, I think, was that we were still rolling along. That may have been more the senior players saying, ‘No, we’re okay.’ But I do think there was a lot of, ‘We’ve lost one, shivers,’ from the younger players. [/QUOTE] I’ve never seen anything to suggest the Kiwi’s deliberately lost that game. We had just won seven in a row, which for us was pretty much unprecedented. They most certainly didn’t want to break their winning streak. What makes you think that they did? ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/38 "2016-12-14T03:37:16Z")
I’ve never quite understood this, either. Players are ‘rested’ during a long season, so that they are fit for the playoffs. Usain Bolt will jog in 3rd in the heats of the 100m, so as not to risk injury. Bigger goal - title race. In games, teams will give up a small score rather than risk the chance of a big score (we’ve all seen deliberate safeties occur now and then in the NFL). Bigger goal - win the game. If there is an ultimate prize - an overall title which you are trying to win - you do whatever you can to ensure you win. I thought the Chinese Badminton players should NOT have been disqualified. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/39 "2016-12-14T14:15:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Unfortunately for you the edits aren’t invisible to me. 😃 Yeah, I was worried about that. So… what will it take for this issue to go away? I’ve heard mods are not above a little bribery. “little” as in you can be bought cheap. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493/40 "2016-12-14T16:24:01Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > IMHO because modern-day mass-consumed sports is more about entertainment and marketing that the sport itself - it is about making money under the illusion of “sport”. If people knew teams were throwing games on purpose, for any reason, they would stop watching, and the NFL and advertisers would not make as much money. This works well to explain NFL games, but it doesn’t help with high school level stuff. In the second link by Skammer it was two high school basketball teams both trying to lose. The refs told the coaches to quit making a mockery of the game. The NFL and big sports leagues have a vested interest in making sure all games are played to win. It is why Pete Rose isn’t in the hall of fame. But for other stuff? I don’t see the problem with teams tossing games if they think that is the best way to win the championship. If some other team loses out, tough. Even in the NFL teams will pass up opportunities for an outright win in favor of taking their chances in overtime. How many times do you see teams kicking the PAT and going to overtime instead of going for 2 and winning outright? Happens all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-acceptable-for-an-nfl-team-to-throw-a-game/774493.md?page=3)