# Is it ever to one's advantage to indicate ethnicity as "White" on a form? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 8, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625 "2010-08-08T20:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/21 "2010-08-10T03:49:52Z")
Oh, grrrr. Some years ago I applied for a job with the state (colorado). First I took a written test. Then the top people from the written test took another test–I forget what they called it, but it had a few multiple choice questions, then we had to write a press release. Then for the top applicants of that one, there was an oral exam. At which point they were supposed to interview the top 3 candidates and keep the top 10 candidates’ applications and scores live for a year, in case any other jobs in this or another agency came up. So I got a letter stating that I was #3, but that, on account of having insufficient diversity among the finalists, the state dept. of labor was _reposting the job_. Tell me this isn’t discrimination! I will say, putting my racial/ethnic/sex characteristics on a form doesn’t bother me, as everything will be clear when I show up for the oral/interview. But, we had all filled out the form. If we were too white (and, judging from the folks who were taking test #2 with me, we predominantly were), they had from the first application to figure it out, rather than letting the rest of us spend all that time and energy taking all those baby steps and getting hopeful. If I am going to be not-hired because of my race, I’d at least rather it happen without my having to invest a lot in the process of getting rejected. We were about 2/3 male-1/3 female at that test. The orals were done one person at a time so I didn’t see the final group. It’s possible that only the women advanced; maybe that was the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/22 "2010-08-10T04:13:58Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Try this little experiment: apply for 15 jobs with your real information, and check the box for “white”. Then apply for the same 15 jobs using the name Tyrone, and leave the race box blank. > > > > Now, who got more phone calls? > > I know you’re joking, but an experiment might actually be pretty interesting (not necessarily exactly as you’ve described). 😃 Then you’d undoubtedly be interested in its results: [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/23 "2010-08-10T05:18:55Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > > [@Rigamarole](#): > > > > I know you’re joking, but an experiment might actually be pretty interesting (not necessarily exactly as you’ve described). 😃 > > Then you’d undoubtedly be interested in its results: [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml) Indeed… although the impact of a name goes deeper than that of race. I’d be curious to see an experiment conducted where the names are the same but the race is marked differently. ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/24 "2010-08-10T06:21:41Z")
If you’re applying for a job with us… yes. The advantage being that your application doesn’t go through a shredder. “prefer not to disclose” is a trap, we use it to screen out people we don’t want working for us. If you think race, sexual preference, drug use… or even a criminal record is an issue, you wouldn’t fit in. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/25 "2010-08-10T06:40:56Z")
> [@GHO57](#): > > If you’re applying for a job with us… yes. The advantage being that your application doesn’t go through a shredder. “prefer not to disclose” is a trap, we use it to screen out people we don’t want working for us. If you think race, sexual preference, drug use… or even a criminal record is an issue, you wouldn’t fit in. If you want people that don’t think race is an issue, throwing out anyone who picks the “does it matter?” option is counterproductive and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/26 "2010-08-10T10:39:32Z")
“prefer not to disclose” does not sound like the “does it matter?” option to me. (White, female, never seen any reason to hide either). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/27 "2010-08-10T11:00:18Z")
White people do not always get discriminated against, even in the absence of the real racial discrimination that happens on a daily basis. For instance, if you, a white person, apply to a historically black college or university–especially if it is a state school–then chances are you will be favored over a black applicant. And have scholarship money thrown at you, on top of that. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18914514/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18914514/) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/28 "2010-08-10T11:00:43Z")
Depends on what you’re applying for. If you’re trying to join the KKK, I’d mark it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/29 "2010-08-10T11:22:43Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > > [@Rigamarole](#): > > > > Please. Affirmative action is still going strong. My premise is that admitting to being white can only hurt your chances of getting accepted for, admitted to, hired, etc. for anything competitive compared to an otherwise similar candidate who is not white. I was just trying to think of any instance where this might not be the case. > > Your premise is fundamentally flawed. > > I’ve never had any problem getting jobs, or into programs, despite being as white as anyone I’ve ever met. > > Except maybe this one kid from my high school, he was super-white. Like, “Holyshit, the suns on him and I’m _bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind_,” white. So his premise is fundamentally flawed because you’ve personally been successful at getting jobs and/or acceptance letters? Even if your personal experience were quite significant, which it is not, it would not mean that your whiteness did not work against you. Success comes in gradations. You can always be more successful–always. ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/30 "2010-08-10T11:23:40Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > > [@GHO57](#): > > > > If you’re applying for a job with us… yes. The advantage being that your application doesn’t go through a shredder. “prefer not to disclose” is a trap, we use it to screen out people we don’t want working for us. If you think race, sexual preference, drug use… or even a criminal record is an issue, you wouldn’t fit in. > > If you want people that don’t think race is an issue, throwing out anyone who picks the “does it matter?” option is counterproductive and stupid. We’re talking about different things; you’re talking about a person who doesn’t care… and is both incapable of precise self-expression and also unable to follow simple instructions. I’m talking about a person who wants to keep secrets, and makes assumptions. Slight difference there; the wording of the instructions, and the form itself are pretty damn specific for a reason. Btw, do you have any suggestions regarding our flextime policy? Would a strict adherence to 7 to 4 be better for us? Seriously, I’ll personally OK the consultancy on that issue… I feel we could really benefit from your superior knowledge. I’ve never actually seen anyone capable of judging what policy works best, without knowing what the company does. How about our IT security? Anything we need there? Bonus system look good to you? Oh, and you know those things in the office, should we keep them or are there better alternatives? …how about the parking? Are we really getting a good deal? ---
**Author:** ![rayman5321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@rayman5321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayman5321)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/31 "2010-08-10T15:22:48Z")
> [@GHO57](#): > > If you’re applying for a job with us… yes. The advantage being that your application doesn’t go through a shredder. “prefer not to disclose” is a trap, we use it to screen out people we don’t want working for us. If you think race, sexual preference, drug use… or even a criminal record is an issue, you wouldn’t fit in. I suppose if I said my name was Tamika, Shanika, Neisseria or Treponema my application would be shitcanned. I know they do that in Texas and other backwards places from people I’ve known there. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/32 "2010-08-10T15:49:25Z")
> [@GHO57](#): > > > [@Grumman](#): > > > > If you want people that don’t think race is an issue, throwing out anyone who picks the “does it matter?” option is counterproductive and stupid. > > We’re talking about different things; you’re talking about a person who doesn’t care… and is both incapable of precise self-expression and also unable to follow simple instructions. I’m talking about a person who wants to keep secrets, and makes assumptions. Slight difference there; the wording of the instructions, and the form itself are pretty damn specific for a reason. I’m not sure what the “wording of the instructions” are for filling out your work app forms, but the thread was discussing normal apps with that question on it. It seems like you’re making some big assumptions yourself about people who check the non-disclose box. All (or a statistically significant) percentage of those people are people who like to keep secrets and make assumptions? Uh-huh. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/33 "2010-08-10T16:33:31Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > > > Why don’t you explain what you mean by “right answer.” > > > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > > > You usually assume that indicating you are white on an application or form puts you at a disadvantage? Really? Can you explain why you feel this way? > > Please. Affirmative action is still going strong. My premise is that admitting to being white can only hurt your chances of getting accepted for, admitted to, hired, etc. for anything competitive compared to an otherwise similar candidate who is not white. I was just trying to think of any instance where this might not be the case. What benefit do you think choosing “i prefer not to say” over “white” gives you? Affirmative action means giving preference to people of minority races, do you think either answer puts you in a different pile? I mean i can understand if you thought claiming to be a minority would help you but it makes no sense at all to think not telling them what you are would. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/34 "2010-08-10T16:55:56Z")
Yes, hello, my name is Graham Wellington. Is the apartment on Park Avenue available? ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/35 "2010-08-10T17:23:11Z")
**GHo57** , would you mind telling us what sort of business you are in? I’m really curious about the thought process that would hire a non-white homosexual drug-using convicted felon but automatically eliminate from consideration a highly qualified, married, white person with no history of drug use or criminal record who checked “Prefer not to disclose.” This seems to me to go beyond fuzzy thinking, straight into just plain bizarre. Help me understand this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/36 "2010-08-10T17:32:48Z")
He’s the player personnel director of the Cincinnati Bengals. ---
**Author:** ![Meros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Meros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meros)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/37 "2010-08-10T17:44:35Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > **GHo57** , would you mind telling us what sort of business you are in? > > I’m really curious about the thought process that would hire a non-white homosexual drug-using convicted felon but automatically eliminate from consideration a highly qualified, married, white person with no history of drug use or criminal record who checked “Prefer not to disclose.” > > This seems to me to go beyond fuzzy thinking, straight into just plain bizarre. Help me understand this, please. HR Meddling usually. Happens at universities sometimes. I know of at least one situation where the above (minus the “prefer not to disclose bit”) bit happened when my father was attempting to hire a lab tech. (major Electrical and Computer Engineering school) In my own experience I’ve been told I can’t hire until I interview at least N more “diverse” candidates regardless of whether or not those candidates have any relevant experience. (Ivy league Uni) Bear in mind I’m a Systems Administrator for a large installation and wasn’t hiring for entry level. Relevant experience is kind of important. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/38 "2010-08-10T17:51:14Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What benefit do you think choosing “i prefer not to say” over “white” gives you? Affirmative action means giving preference to people of minority races, do you think either answer puts you in a different pile? I mean i can understand if you thought claiming to be a minority would help you but it makes no sense at all to think not telling them what you are would. Of course it does. Admitting you are white = proof you are definitely not a minority. Declining to state = might be a minority, who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/39 "2010-08-10T18:49:43Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > > [@DigitalC](#): > > > > What benefit do you think choosing “i prefer not to say” over “white” gives you? Affirmative action means giving preference to people of minority races, do you think either answer puts you in a different pile? I mean i can understand if you thought claiming to be a minority would help you but it makes no sense at all to think not telling them what you are would. > > Of course it does. Admitting you are white = proof you are definitely not a minority. Declining to state = might be a minority, who knows? Declining to state is almost a sure way to have your application placed in the circular file. I think the only reason companies offer this option is to pare down the interview pool. Someone who declines to state is either playing games or has something to hide. In either case, it’s probably prudent to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625/40 "2010-08-10T19:43:08Z")
Hmm. Another one with the idea that people who really really think that race shouldn’t matter and/or who really really think that questions regarding race shouldn’t even be on an employment application shouldn’t even be considered for a job. I suggest that the real reason for such a policy (even if the HR employees who enforce it aren’t aware of it) is to insure that the company never “accidentally” offers an interview to the “wrong” race for a particular position. That makes a whole lot more sense than the idea that people who decline to answer are attempting to hide something; what in world could they be hiding … unless the actual concern is that they might be trying to “pass”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ever-to-ones-advantage-to-indicate-ethnicity-as-white-on-a-form/549625.md?page=3)