# Is it fair to say Jesus committed suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184 "2017-01-25T21:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/81 "2017-01-27T02:50:43Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I think a major difference there is that in the second situation, death isn’t guaranteed - indeed, if it’s avoidable while still helping others, it would be. This is true to a lesser extent with the soldier throwing themselves onto a grenade; death is a risk, not a certainty. And beyond that, I would argue that in some cases, we do speak about people taking on unbelievable or foolhardy risks as “death-seekers”. > > That said, if a soldier threw themselves on a grenade to protect their fellows with a 100% certainty that they would die, I would call that a suicide. A noble suicide, but suicide nonetheless. I don’t think that’s right. Suicide is the desire to end ones life. Here it’s the desire to save the life of another. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/82 "2017-01-27T02:59:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not sure how I “choked” by asking a question? Perhaps you could explain it? > > It wasn’t my point to make anyway, nor was I attempting to make a point. You can read whatever you want into someone asking a sincere question, but that is what it was, a sincere question. One that has since be discussed with all parties, except you I guess, on the same page. Let me try…using my own words. The first statement was, “Biblical prophecies are written after the events.” i.e., they aren’t really prophecies. (I predict John F. Kennedy will be assassinated.) Your reply was, “Is this true? All the prophecies listed in the Old Testament were all written after the events of Jesus?” But that doesn’t follow at all. The original statement could include the claim that the prophecies of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians was written after the destruction of Jerusalem…but still long before the events of Jesus. That is the gigantic middle ground you left out. The claim is that all the prophecies in the Old Testament were written after those events…not that they were all written after the time of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/83 "2017-01-27T03:11:13Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It is only a “tough order” if you assume the origin myth built around Jesus to be historically accurate _and_ [you assume that “virgin” is an accurate translation](https://outreachjudaism.org/alma-virgin/). Wouldn’t the double meaning of the English word “maiden” be a more accurate translation? In the sense that in those societies a young unmarried woman **better** be a virgin, or else? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/84 "2017-01-27T05:56:32Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s like the soldier throwing himself on the grenade…rather than kicking it down into the disposal hole (some bunkers were built with holes specifically for that purpose.) Every trench I dug in the military had a hole to kick a grenade into. > [@aldiboronti](#): > > Well, technically, as part of the Trinity I guess you could blame the other two. 🙂 > [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Not if you kill yourself with a grenade. > [@Miller](#): > > He sacrificed himself to free us from a penalty that he imposed on us. That’s not really that much of a gift. Essentially, he built the grenade (starting with the creation) and then threw it. Given that then it is suicide… But being GOD should grant at least Superman or equivalent levels of ability, so if you can’t die then it doesn’t really count. And it doesn’t matter if at the time he was unsure of this because prior to assuming human form he knew what the outcome was. ---
**Author:** ![SantaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SantaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SantaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/85 "2017-01-27T07:36:13Z")
When I was a kid being raised Roman Catholic, the sinful version was called “The sin of despair” Giving one’s life would be considered different. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/86 "2017-01-27T10:17:28Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Wouldn’t the double meaning of the English word “maiden” be a more accurate translation? In the sense that in those societies a young unmarried woman **better** be a virgin, or else? We should also note that the prophecy in question comes from the Book of Isaiah. This was written ~300 years after Isaiah’s death. As we already noted with Balaam, quite a lot can change in that time, and so we must question where exactly this prophecy came from. It is awfully specific for something which is that old and, if we’re honest, it’s just as unlikely that Isaiah was as much a prophet of Yahweh as Balaam was. There’s no extra-Biblical evidence of Jewish monotheism prior to ~600BC. Let’s also look at the whole paragraphs from the work in question, not just single partial sentences. [Quote=Book of Isaiah] A Rebellious Nation 2 Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth! For the Lord has spoken: “I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knows its master, the donkey its owner’s manger, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” 4 Woe to the sinful nation, a people whose guilt is great, a brood of evildoers, children given to corruption! They have forsaken the Lord; they have spurned the Holy One of Israel and turned their backs on him. 5 Why should you be beaten anymore? Why do you persist in rebellion? Your whole head is injured, your whole heart afflicted. 6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head there is no soundness— only wounds and welts and open sores, not cleansed or bandaged or soothed with olive oil. 7 Your country is desolate, your cities burned with fire; your fields are being stripped by foreigners right before you, laid waste as when overthrown by strangers. 8 Daughter Zion is left like a shelter in a vineyard, like a hut in a cucumber field, like a city under siege. 9 Unless the Lord Almighty had left us some survivors, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah. […] Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Immanuel.[f] 15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.” [/quote] Right off the bat, who the hell is Immanuel? Did Mary have a different son with God than just Jesus? There is no known actual Immanuel in Jewish history that anyone had sought to pair with this character. The Wikipedia suggests that it could be a reference to Hezekiah. Personally, I would suggest Josiah. Josiah is the monarch who seems to have initiated the process of converting the realm to monotheism and having the OT written. As monarch, he is the son of God’s nation (also true for Hezekiah) which, as we see from earlier in the chapter is referred to as Daughter Zion - which has birthed many people, though they turned against her. Given that the whole of chapter 5 previous to this was talking about God’s land and we see the land being called a “her” before this, is there any good reason to disclude the land as being the “alma” in question? Josiah’s reign comes right after the end of the Babylonian Captivity, which is the time period where the King of Assyria - Cyrus the Great - orders that the Jews rebuild the Temple. > **[Edict of Cyrus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus%27s_edict)** > > The Edict of Cyrus usually refers to the biblical account of a proclamation by Cyrus the Great, the founding king of the Achaemenid Persian Empire, in 539 BCE. It was issued after the Persians conquered the Neo-Babylonian Empire upon the fall of Babylon, and is described in the Tanakh, which claims that it authorized and encouraged the return to Zion and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem (i.e., the Second Temple). > The Cyrus Cylinder text has also been called the "Edict of Cyrus", but t... Remember, we’ve already seen that ancient prophets were being rewritten to support monotheism. We also see Josiah’s high priest “finding” Deuteronomy - supposedly the lost weird if Good, given to Moses, but which textual analysis shows was written in the 6th century, some ~800 years later than the Bible chronology indicates. > **[Hilkiah](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilkiah)** > > Hilkiah (Hebrew: חִלְקִיָּה(וּ), romanized: Ḥilqiyyā(hu), lit. 'my portion is Yahweh') was a Kohen or Israelite priest at the time of King Josiah (reigned c. 641–609 BCE). > His name is mentioned in II Kings. He was the High Priest and is known for finding a lost copy of the Book of the Law at the Temple in Jerusalem at the time that King Josiah commanded that Solomon's Temple be refurbished according to 2 Kings 22:8. His preaching may have helped spur Josiah to return Judah to the worship of Yahw... We’re not looking at the work of a group of honest, politically unmotivated writers. They are creating a set of works which support the single, united monarchy of Israel, the single God who rules through him, and the ally (Cyrus) by whose favor he is able to rule the land. Isaiah discourages rebellion (against the Assyrians, probably) and lays all sorts of favors on Cyrus, the nation’s benefactor. We see in Isaiah 10:5 on that the Persians - Zoroastrians at the time - have been sent into the “godless” (e.g. polytheistic) nation, as an example of the greatness of the one, monotheistic deity - presumably called both Yahweh and Ahura Mazda. In 10:13, we note that the King of Assyria had removed the borders of all the nations. Indeed, Cyrus conquered and joined together all of the middle Eastern countries (excluding Egypt - but the process may have still been ongoing at the time Isaiah was written, so they wouldn’t have known that he wouldn’t make it all the way). Did Jesus build the Temple? No. Did he unite the nations? No. Was he the King of Assyria: Definetely not. Can you think of anywhere in Jesus’s life that he had anything to do with Assyria? You could possibly argue that one of the Magi could have been, but then why don’t we see three kings in Isaiah? And, as already said (though I haven’t cited anything in this thread) the whole story about Bethlehem is bunk anyways. While the Wikipedia and I disagree on the identity of Immanuel, we both agree and I don’t think there’s really much ambiguity - for the time that the work was written - that the King of Assyria in question is Cyrus the Great. And we should note that the word “Messiah” in Ancient Hebrew simply means “leader”. I think we can all agree that there are usually multiple leaders in the land. My land, for example, has a mayor and a governor and a president. In the period that the Book of Isaiah was written, the were at least Josiah and Cyrus, and if we allow the book to cover the whole period from when Isaiah actually lived to when the Book of Isaiah was written, there’s a lot of leaders that the book could, potentially, be referring to each time it uses the word “leader”. You would really need to read the whole thing for sufficient context - and brush up on your 9th to 6th century Middle Eastern history - to really fill in who any particular instance of the word is referring to. But, certainly the work is not talking about Jesus. I would vote that other than a few bits of poetic license, it’s a fairly straightforward overview of the 7th and 6th centuries, as written in the mid-6th century. But even if we exclude that possibility, if you actually read the whole damn thing, not just selectively pull out a few context-free partial statements, it’s pretty clear that Jesus didn’t fulfill any part of the text. He may well have been born to a young woman. That’s pretty true of most folk. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/87 "2017-01-27T10:33:25Z")
I should also note that Josiah attained the throne quite young, so it would make sense to reference his birth and youth. (Apologies for typos in the previous post. I’m writing on my phone.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/88 "2017-01-27T12:59:23Z")
Oh yes, another of the prophets who seems rather questionable is [Elijah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah). One of the acts of Elijah that the Bible recounts is how God ordered him to go and anoint Hazael king of Aram Damascus. However, the [Tel Dan Stele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele) is generally believed that have been commissioned by Hazael and made around ~800 BC has this particular line: > [@](#): > > But, then, as for me, Hadad made me king. And Hadad went before me This being a reference to [Ba’al Hadad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadad). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/89 "2017-01-27T13:37:24Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Let me try…using my own words. > > The first statement was, “Biblical prophecies are written after the events.” i.e., they aren’t really prophecies. (I predict John F. Kennedy will be assassinated.) > > Your reply was, “Is this true? All the prophecies listed in the Old Testament were all written after the events of Jesus?” > > But that doesn’t follow at all. The original statement could include the claim that the prophecies of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians was written after the destruction of Jerusalem…but still long before the events of Jesus. > > That is the gigantic middle ground you left out. > > The claim is that all the prophecies in the Old Testament were written after those events…not that they were all written after the time of Jesus. OK. Thanks for sharing your own words. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/90 "2017-01-27T18:14:29Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > I don’t think that’s right. Suicide is the desire to end ones life. Here it’s the desire to save the life of another. Suicide isn’t the desire to end one’s life. I haven’t committed suicide if I decide I’d like to kill myself, then change my mind and don’t. It isn’t the desire; it’s the taking. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/91 "2017-01-27T18:19:45Z")
> [@SantaMan](#): > > When I was a kid being raised Roman Catholic, the sinful version was called “The sin of despair” > Giving one’s life would be considered different. I find this very interesting. I suppose the question from this would be; if we imagine someone’s taken drugs that result in a rapturous good humour, and in their happy delirium jump in front of a train because that’s how they become a unicorn… would we call that suicide? And, beyond that, I would argue that our soldier diving on a grenade is in despair; he doesn’t believe there’s any way out for his buddies other than to sacrifice his own life. That’s not really a happy situation. For the sake of argument, I also found another interesting point on this subject from a religious perspective; that the “sinful” part of suicide is that one’s life belongs to God, and thus it is wrong for us to end it just as it would be wrong to destroy something belonging to a friend. With that view, Jesus’s death may have been suicide, but not sinful, because that death _was_ God’s plan. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/92 "2017-01-27T18:29:44Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Suicide isn’t the desire to end one’s life. I haven’t committed suicide if I decide I’d like to kill myself, then change my mind and don’t. It isn’t the desire; it’s the taking. So thinking about sinning is o.k.? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/93 "2017-01-27T18:34:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So thinking about sinning is o.k.? IANA Christian. But my guess would be that thinking about murder is not the sin of murder. It may be the sin of thinking about murder. If that’s a sin. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/94 "2017-01-27T18:48:46Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > IANA Christian. But my guess would be that thinking about murder is not the sin of murder. It may be the sin of thinking about murder. If that’s a sin. Mathew 5:21 and on would suggest otherwise. [QUOTE=JESUS] 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister\*\*[c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. [/QUOTE] And he repeats the same concept with adultry, etc ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/95 "2017-01-27T18:52:52Z")
I don’t think that cite is problematic to my thinking on that. It refers to judgement for each sin, but it doesn’t say that it’s the same judgement or the same crime. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/96 "2017-01-27T19:13:10Z")
Comparing the rest of the chapter equates ‘thinking it == doing it’ [QUOTE=JESUS] Adultery 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Divorce 31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Terri63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@Terri63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terri63)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/97 "2017-10-15T00:14:32Z")
I wouldn’t say it was exactly suicide, more like martydom. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/98 "2017-10-15T00:40:24Z")
> [@Terri63](#): > > I wouldn’t say it was exactly suicide, more like martydom. Marty! You’ve got to go with me, Marty! Back to 33 AD! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/99 "2017-10-15T01:54:51Z")
from January (I missed this at the time) in reply to me: > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I don’t know about this. The section I quoted from the Bible in the OP reads to me that Jesus knew/believed something pretty big was going down, to the extent he wouldn’t be sitting eating and drinking with the apostles again as he was at the Last Supper. It doesn’t seem like a “Hey, guys, just in case…” situation; he reads as expecting the worst. I didn’t mean he didn’t perceive the risk, that it _could_ go down that way. And a time must have come when he began to realize things were shaping up in that direction. What I meant was that I don’t think he went into it from the outset expecting this outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184/100 "2017-10-15T03:47:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I guess, technically, you can’t kill Jesus. You can make his earthly body stop working but that’s just a meat suit for Jesus…he doesn’t really need it. > > He didn’t commit suicide because he didn’t die (or was only temporarily dead). I don’t know if Jesus even temporarily died. Most Christian belief is that Jesus and God are the same being. So if Jesus genuinely died for three days then God was also dead for those three days. Creation had three days in which God did not exist. Leaving aside the theological implications of that, there’s scriptural evidence that refutes this idea. The Bible says that after Jesus “died” there were earthquakes and other signs to mark his passage. These are evidence that God still existed while Jesus was “dead”. And if God and Jesus are the same being then Jesus still existed even if his body was dead. There’s also the resurrection. God obviously had to still exist after the crucifixion in order to resurrect Jesus on the third day. If God and Jesus were truly dead they wouldn’t be able to bring themselves back from the dead. So it’s clear that God and Jesus still existed in some form during the three days when Jesus was “dead”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-fair-to-say-jesus-committed-suicide/778184.md?page=6)