# Is it futile to discuss 9/11 with truthers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016 "2015-12-21T18:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/121 "2015-12-30T18:32:45Z")
**Enough!** > [@psikeyhackr](#): > > Stop talking about conspiracies and just make a physical or virtual model of the north tower that can completely collapse in less than 30 seconds. > > In 1940 it only took 4 months to make a 1/200th scale model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge that duplicated the oscillations that caused the collapse of the real bridge. They didn’t have computers to confuse themselves with at the time. > > So why can’t a twin tower model be made 46 years after the Moon landing? > > The bridge model is shown 3 minutes into this video. > > psik Your nonsense, here, has been thoroughly refuted in numerous threads. This is merely an attempt to hijack this thread to promote your own silly beliefs. This hijack is at an end. \*\* EVERYONE\*\*, there will be no more discussions of this “model” nonsense in this thread. It is a hijack and it will not be allowed. If anyone wants to actually examine **psikeyhackr** ’s beliefs, they may open a new thread to do so. (I will not promise that it will not be closed if it gets stupid or hostile.) (If anyone was not here for the last round of nonsense, I would recommend searching for the older threads rather than wasting time trying to discuss the issue with a True Believer.) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/122 "2015-12-30T22:25:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > You do know why they built a model of the bridge in 1940, right? > > It’s because they didn’t have computer modeling, which you hinted at in the above. Had they had the ability we have today, they wouldn’t have built the model in the first place. Physically modeling it was the best recourse they had at the time to understand what happened. Who needs to hint at the obvious. The ENIAC was not operational until 1945. But computers do not do physics, they simulate it. But whether physics model or computer model they must be based on correct data. So try finding correct data on steel and concrete distributions down the towers. Gregory Urich could not do it. psik ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/123 "2015-12-30T23:31:45Z")
Tom told you to give it a rest. Warning issued. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/124 "2015-12-31T14:58:55Z")
This is another example of the old saying “My mind’s made up. Don’t confuse me with facts.” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/125 "2015-12-31T15:56:38Z")
Since his name was brought up: > [@Gregory Urich](#): > > Surely, there were explosive sounds and flashes of light as there are too many witnesses to deny this. Nonetheless, the only videos of the collapses with sound do not have any explosive sounds. In the following video, one can hear people talking and the sound of the collapse. In videos of actual demolitions the explosive charges are at least ten times louder than collapse sounds. Compare: > > [http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc2\_south\_below.mpg](http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc2_south_below.mpg) > > to these actual demolitions: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ) > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XG-l3N1YfQ&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XG-l3N1YfQ&feature=related) > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMkJmnyDuQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMkJmnyDuQ) > > This evidence directly contradicts the controlled demolition theory, at least by conventional means. Nonetheless, the witness testimonies should be taken seriously. It is possible that people heard or saw something else, for example, reflections of lights from emergency vehicles or cars exploding. > > [T]here may be alternative explanations other than a preplanned demolition and these should receive at least as much attention. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/126 "2015-12-31T18:15:59Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I like to ask Truthers, if their ideas are true, what do they plan to do about it? It seems to me that if you believe the President of the United States and a large number of government operatives murdered thousands of Americans, then rebelling against that government and seeking justice would be a moral imperative. But I have yet to meet anyone who actually took concrete steps to overthrow the government, so I suppose that it must not be that big of a deal. [I asked that question in a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735000) last September: > [@](#): > > Why the hell are they still here? > > This isn’t an “America: Love it or leave it” screed because they are boring and ignores that changing the country for the better is a noble goal - dare I say, something that this country is supposed to encourage. > > But 9/11 Truthers are not upset that this country has an unfair tax code or a view on abortion that they don’t share. Truthers actually feel that our government is capable of pure unmitigated evil - the slaughter of thousands of innocent people - and then covering it all up, placing the blame on some poor innocent Muslims who would never hurt a fly. > > If I believed with ever fiber of my being that my government was capable of such an evil act, I would promptly do my best to get the fuck out of the country. I would refuse to live in a place so unspeakably evil. I would flee using whatever leans I could, legal or otherwise. I would sneak into Canada, apply for asylum in Europe, go to Africa and simply never return - anything other than reside in a place whose government was capable of such evil. > > Yet, as far as I know, there has been no mass exodus of Truthers attempting to leave the country. None of the more high profile people in the movement have fled America for greener pastures. > > This seems to me to be a serious hole in their beliefs. How do they rationalize believing with all their might that this country orchestrated the greatest terrorist attack on US soil but then continue to have federal taxes come out of their paychecks? It simply does not compute. I don’t think any Truthers came into that thread to reply… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/127 "2015-12-31T21:30:14Z")
As a side note: I am getting jaded, there is an impressive hotel fire taking place in Dubai right now (no casualties so far as reported thankfully), and my first thoughts are “Here’s another one the truthers will trot out when they say fire can’t cause buildings to collapse.” Never mind that the hotel is made with concrete, not steel and the fire is contained to the exterior due to working fire supression inside. ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/128 "2015-12-31T21:50:21Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > As a side note: I am getting jaded, there is an impressive hotel fire taking place in Dubai right now (no casualties so far as reported thankfully), and my first thoughts are “Here’s another one the truthers will trot out when they say fire can’t cause buildings to collapse.” > > Never mind that the hotel is made with concrete, not steel and the fire is contained to the exterior due to working fire supression inside. Does “jaded” mean putting words in people’s mouths without providing substantial data. A 63 story building is all concrete? The fire started on the 20th floor. > **[Fire engulfs downtown Dubai’s high-rise Address hotel | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/middleeast/dubai-address-hotel-fire/)** > > A fire breaks out in Dubai at the high-end Address hotel. The city’s New Year’s fireworks show went on as scheduled. But then you are assuming that it won’t collapse aren’t you? LOL psik ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/129 "2015-12-31T22:11:45Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > Does “jaded” mean putting words in people’s mouths without providing substantial data. And speaking of putting words into peoples’ mouths: > [@](#): > > A 63 story building is all concrete? That’s not what **Mr. Miskatonic** said. But more importantly: > [@](#): > > But then you are assuming that it won’t collapse aren’t you? LOL This, more than almost anything else, answers the OP for me. #notalltruthers :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/130 "2015-12-31T22:31:58Z")
If that building in Dubai were to collapse, they’d say that it was another controlled demolition, done to convince truthers that burning buildings do collapse. ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/131 "2016-01-01T00:51:44Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And speaking of putting words into peoples’ mouths: > > That’s not what **Mr. Miskatonic** He said: > [@](#): > > Never mind that the hotel is made with concrete, not steel I ASKED, “A 63 story building is all concrete?” Didn’t he say “not steel” or did I miss something? Oh yeah, there’s glass and plumbing and wiring. Has anyone ever said those had anything to do with collapsing or not? Is the fire out and do we know whether or not it has collapsed? 😃 psik Physics is Futile! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/132 "2016-01-01T01:17:52Z")
Yes. It is concrete from all the info I could find [http://skyscrapercenter.com/building/the-address/468](http://skyscrapercenter.com/building/the-address/468) I’m pretty sure it isn’t going to collapse. The fire is external. Fire systems working, fire department active, concrete structure. But do please keep trying. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/133 "2016-01-01T01:31:48Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > [I asked that question in a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=735000) last September:I don’t think any Truthers came into that thread to reply… Of course they didn’t. My personal theory on those whacked-out nutjobs (and, yes, that’s exactly what they are) is that they not only do not understand the actual science involved (not even that loon Jones who got canned, sort of, from BYU for his inanity) but do not believe their own screeds. They’re in it for the accolades thrown at them by others who also do not understand science. Basically your run-of-the-mill “truther” is in one of two camps: [ol][li]Spewing the nonsense knowing full well it’s nonsense, but happy to get a follwing from Camp 2.[/li][li]People who lap up the nonsense because they do not understand science and want the nonsense spewed by Camp 1 to be true.[/ol][/li] It’s possible to convert Camp 2 followers to reality. Camp 1, though, already knows they’re liars and it’s not an issue of conversion. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/134 "2016-01-01T02:26:48Z")
They just use the Co2 geysers to put the fires out!! Thats why the pyramids never burnt down!!! 😃 Or maybe it was all that rebar in them? Concrete really needs lots of steel in it, especially tall things. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016/135 "2016-01-01T06:37:41Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Yes. It is concrete from all the info I could find > > [The Address - The Skyscraper Center](http://skyscrapercenter.com/building/the-address/468) > > I’m pretty sure it isn’t going to collapse. The fire is external. Fire systems working, fire department active, concrete structure. > > But do please keep trying. Even if there’s some exposed steel, the steel should collapse while the concrete remains standing. Like what happened in Madrid on 12 February 2005. Truthers tend to ignore all the steel that had been left hanging off the building. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-futile-to-discuss-9-11-with-truthers/741016.md?page=6)