Nice story.
Got evidence for a conspiracy involving 9/11?
I’ve never claimed to have. And ‘evidence’ has played no part whatsoever in this discussion.
Have you followed this thread?
Will you being contributing?
An even more important distinction is that Iran Contra, Watergate, etc were all *proven *, whereas 9/11 CT’s have not been.
Quoted for truth, and can probably be applied to most other contributions by "JAQ"ers.
Yes-you have shown us exactly why it is futile to discuss 9/11 with truthers. Thank you.
Yes, I will continue to contribute as I see fit.
I’d encourage you to seek out the definition of ‘conspiracy’, you may find it involves secrecy.
It involves other things, too. Why don’t you go seek out the definition yourself, since it has already been told to you in this thread and you haven’t listened.
We’ll get to the bottom of this; Let’s waterboard that Cheney bastard.
Look, we know exactly why and how Iran/Contra happened. It has been thoroughly studied, and there’s really not much more to learn about it.
We know the whys and hows of the CIA torture program, the war in Vietnam, slavery in the United States, and lots of other bad things in our history. Listing off a list of bad things that we know a lot about is not convincing evidence that we don’t know the real truth about 9/11, because it’s been studied to death and we know the whys and hows of what happened in DC and New York.
And let’s keep in mind that Iran/Contra was uncovered in less that two years. The NSA warrantless wiretapping story (at least the biggest part of it) was published in 2005. Shoot, anyone who was paying attention knew that Bush was attacking the wrong country on the day the war started in 2003.
But for some reason, you think 14 years later we’re still in a fog about what happened on 9/11? Give me a break.
At least the LIHOPers don’t offer a theory that violates the laws of physics.
Ignore the doubters, and be heartened and renewed by the example of Ahab in his attempts to fell the white whale. To the last I grapple with thee…
That is the type of attitude you need to have, to systematically reprogram their entire brain from the ground up. This is a daunting task, like trying to sweep up all the grains of sand from the desert, but it CAN be done.
It doesn’t matter what I believe. Where does your privileged insight come from?
Yes, why yes I do. The obvious reason being the invasion of Afghanistan was the USA’s riposte to 911. Presumably this was the outcome, or the new Pearl Harbour, your ‘elite’ were hoping for? Why would this not be obvious in your voluntarily offered context of “pretext to war”?
If the invasion of Afghanistan was not on the agenda of these ‘elites’, please tell me why rational human beings would sit back and watch New York burn for no good reason knowing that they personally could have prevented the tragedy.
OK, fair enough. Well, that’s another yes to the OP.
Here’s the part I could never get past. And personally, I never thought for a moment it was an “inside job.”
But just for the sake of argument, let’s imagine the Bush/Cheney Administration managed to pull it off. They set all those charges, got those planes to crash into the buildings right on time with all those poor, innocent people, no one noticed, and no one talked. The plan works perfectly. You’ve pulled off the hoax of the century and you’ve got your cover to invade Iraq.
So… why name bin Laden as the “villain?” If you want to invade Iraq, doesn’t it make more sense to name Saddam, instead of having to hoodwink the entire country (again) just after you got done successfully taking down the Towers?
FFS.
A “Truthers” mentality is simple: “Don’t confuse me with reason and logic…My mind’s made up”. How can you possibly (successfully) argue with those parameters? Someone said it stops being an amusement at some point. It’s well known that my name and “diplomacy” rarely collide in the same sentence. Consequently, I have no patience with idiots, and the first syllables uttered along the “crazy lines”, would have been the end of the conversation.
Being the “diplomat” I am, I would have let loose on them. Stupidity! Ignorance! Anti-American! Not paying homage to those that died! Etc., etc.
It’s just my nature to do so!
I think the truthers have an bit of an argument when it comes to how the buildings collapsed and how and why building 7 (?) was destroyed. Where the whole thing loses its bearings to me is that Americans dont need 3,000 dead people to go into Iraq or any other number of countries.
A lie is all it takes. You dont have to twist our arms with 3,000 dead people and a giant extensive multi fascited multi million dollar conspiracy. We like war. Tell us there are WMD’s in Syria, Iraq, Iran and anywhere else and have Rumsfeld point to a diagram and say ‘we know where the WMD’s are, they are in tikrit and the surrounding areas’. Bing Bang BOOM DONE!
Popular Mechanics did a special issue - later expanded into a book - debunking every thermite-cum-demolition-cum-engineers-cum story that Truthers used. It is referenced and does a nice job of taking complex things and working them into understandable prose. It neatly shows the science and facts that show conspiracy theorists to be manipulated or dishonest.
Buy this book for your Truther friends.
Most will come up with bullshit responses. They are lost causes. But for someone not a lost cause, it is the best resource to turn them away from the dark side.
Of course the die-hard truther will come up with a BS response. The standard response is “That’s not real science; it’s a magazine”. As you say they’re lost causes. In addition, my pet theory (sorry about that) on why someone is a truther/birther/Oswald didn’t do it/Oswald wasn’t a lone shooter/etc. CTer is that it’s rooted in a deeply-held prejudice and you’re not going to win over that prejudice.
Because it’s SO important that the phenomenon be seen to exist as much (or more) on the left side of the aisle as on the right…
:dubious:
Sorry it took so long to respond back; between work and holidays I have had little time for computers.
I was relatively young and naive back when 9/11 happened. I still thought America was the greatest country in the world; we had the largest military, all these amazing agencies dedicated to protecting us (FBI, CIA, etc.). To me it seemed impossible that 12 men from countries I had rarely even heard of could pull off such an attack on any American town, much less New York, and definitely not the Twin Towers.
On top of that I majorly hated Bush by that point, so it was easy to place the blame on him. I was already spending a good portion of my time on conspiracy boards by then, so I was getting exposed to other people with the same ideas. There were few skeptics on such sites, and they would always get shouted down.
This place helped open my eyes to a lot of things, and helped teach me some important critical thinking skills.
