# Is it illegal for cops to hide to catch speeders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238 "2006-10-20T16:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/21 "2006-10-21T02:24:10Z")
Why do so many dopers want to either (a) argue the legality of a LEO doing their job or (b) argue aspects of the law being enforced as opposed to © driving at the speed limit? Is this a brain buster? ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/22 "2006-10-21T02:30:44Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper] Speed kills. [/QUOTE] So don’t drive. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/23 "2006-10-21T02:38:16Z")
A homeowner just outside of Harpers Ferry WV used to have a Chevy Crown Vic, in nonfunctional condition parked in the gravel in front of his house. He had a tomato juice can nailed to a one by two sticking a foot or so out of the window. Numerous complaints were filed. The local Justice of the peace said it was not illegal, and besides, accidents were down on that stretch of hiway, so he thought it was a good idea. Tris ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/24 "2006-10-21T02:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Why do so many dopers want to either (a) argue the legality of a LEO doing their job or (b) argue aspects of the law being enforced as opposed to (c) driving at the speed limit? Is this a brain buster? [/QUOTE] I’m going to need a cite that says that people who argue these things do not drive at the speed limit. You don’t have to break the law to be pissed off about it and it’s effect on others who do. I have a feeling this thread is going to quickly degenerate into GD-style flamewar, but speed limits are fundamentally an issue of trade-off between safety and availability/convinience. The safest speed limit is 0 - ban driving, punish it severely, watch the traffic accident statistics drop like a rock. Nobody wants that, so you must weigh public opinion versus public safety and that guarantees that speed limits are not going to be acceptable for all nor are they going to be anything other than arbitrary numbers. Any speed limit greater than 0 is going to kill somebody. What’s an acceptable death/injury/property damage rate for you? Is it going to be the same for me? Or for everybody else? We just don’t have enough info to even plot this graph and it’s such a heated issue getting some sort of a consensus, even scientific or engineering, on it is impossible. Scientists and engineers can agree on things that most do not care deeply about either way, but speed limits just seems to be one of those things that you either feel it’s too high, just right or too low. I’m yet to meet a person who drives daily and would still say “Eh, I wouldn’t really care if they raised it or lowered it by 30mph”. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/25 "2006-10-21T03:27:30Z")
In Georgia the cops have to be in plain view for at least 500ft. And they cannot ticket you unless you are going at least 10 over the limit. This applies just to local police - state troopers can be more strict (I got a ticket for 9 over from a state trooper). ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/26 "2006-10-21T04:06:55Z")
[QUOTE=amarone] In Georgia the cops have to be in plain view for at least 500ft. And they cannot ticket you unless you are going at least 10 over the limit. This applies just to local police - state troopers can be more strict (I got a ticket for 9 over from a state trooper). [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/27 "2006-10-21T14:54:53Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] Cite? [/QUOTE] [10 mph](http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/GaCode/?title=40&chapter=14§ion=8) [500 ft](http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/GaCode/?title=40&chapter=14§ion=7) ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/28 "2006-10-21T16:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper] Like snakes? They are out there to hopefully keep nitwits from killing us. I think this is kind of like that urban legend that undercover narcs can’t lie to you when you ask them if they are cops. Speed kills. [/QUOTE] Yes, snakes hide really well. That’s all I was implying. And no, it’s no urban legend, there are some counties that don’t allow cops to hide, as you can see in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/29 "2006-10-21T17:24:14Z")
[QUOTE=amarone] [10 mph](http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/GaCode/?title=40&chapter=14§ion=8) [500 ft](http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/GaCode/?title=40&chapter=14§ion=7) [/QUOTE] Wow. Those are freaking ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/30 "2006-10-21T17:41:48Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] Wow. Those are freaking ridiculous. [/QUOTE] Well, the 500-foot thing makes a certain amount of sense; as others have pointed out, a visible police presence does more to reduce accidents and fatalities than merely issuing tickets in ambush. However, I agree the 10-MPH rule is ridiculous. They may as well increase all nonexempt posted speed limits by 10 MPH and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/31 "2006-10-21T17:59:34Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Well, the 500-foot thing makes a certain amount of sense; as others have pointed out, a visible police presence does more to reduce accidents and fatalities than merely issuing tickets in ambush. However, I agree the 10-MPH rule is ridiculous. They may as well increase all nonexempt posted speed limits by 10 MPH and be done with it. [/QUOTE] I think under 10 mph might be arguably within margin of error of whatever measuring system is in place. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/32 "2006-10-21T18:04:50Z")
[QUOTE=groman] I think under 10 mph might be arguably within margin of error of whatever measuring system is in place. [/QUOTE] :dubious: I can _eyeball_ a vehicle’s speed to well within 10 MPH–probably closer to 5 MPH. Radars and LIDARs are typically accurate to within 1 to 2 MPH. I don’t know the accuracy of visual systems like VASCAR, but if used properly, I’d have no problem believing they were accurate to within 5 MPH or so, at least. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/33 "2006-10-21T18:17:18Z")
[QUOTE=groman] I think under 10 mph might be arguably within margin of error of whatever measuring system is in place. [/QUOTE] The operator manual of most radar units I’ve used over the past 25 years had indicated that it was accurate within 2 miles per hour. This is consistently testified to in court when defendants try to claim that the radar is off. 10 mph would be a grossly inaccurate unit. When radar is inaccurate it is usually by a percentage, not a set mph. Reflections, angles, cosine errors, and other anomalies are reasons for that. ---
**Author:** ![seenidog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@seenidog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seenidog)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/34 "2006-10-21T18:30:54Z")
As a former cop from Wisconsin, I can tell you the way it was fifteen years ago, but as far as I know nothing has changed. We could do just about anything, but could not park on private property without permission. I had two favorite tricks. One was just to pull off he road and turn on the “Cherries and Berries” and announce to the whole world I was there. Soon someone would go flying by figuring “He is busy”. By the time they realized there was not a car in front of me it was too late, they were clocked and locked. Second trick was to pull over and open the trunk lid. The truck lid hid the lightbar on the roof. Car goes speeding by, so I put the petal down and when spinning tires go from gravel to pavement the trunk lid slams itself shut. hey they didn’t pay me to fight fair, just to win. In my own defense, I never wrote for less than 12 overthe limit. Anyone can “creep up” 5 or so over the limit, but by the time you are going 10 mph over the limit, you know you are speeding and are fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/35 "2006-10-21T19:17:23Z")
Saw a picture (purporting to be from Pasadena, Texas) of a police officer sitting on the side of the highway with a radar gun. On a horse. 😃 Something I’ve noticed is that if I see a car that is the same _shape_ as a police car, like a regular Crown Victoria, I tend to slow down. One time I was driving down the highway, and saw what I think was a decommissioned Crown Vic, still had various bumps and such from where the antenna and lights used to be. I couldn’t decide if I should pass them or stay behind them. :eek: I’ve seen plenty of cops hide out in the open, in places where you wouldn’t look for them, and pull people over. This has included such spots as on the median of one of the main streets (on a motorcycle) and in the parking lot for the County Constable’s office (yeah, saw a cop car sitting in the parking lot peel out of his spot and immediately pull someone over who had just run a red light. In front of the Constable’s office. :smack: ) Also, on at least one occasion, I have seen what looked like a Cessna painted black and white with “POLICE” painted on the undersides of the wings lazily making it’s way up and down a length of highway known for speeding and fatal car accidents in the town I used to go to school in. It’s REMARKABLY difficult to conceal a piston pumper plane ambling along at 1000 feet on a clear day, but I really doubt the majority of folks driving on the highway ever noticed it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/36 "2006-10-21T19:26:26Z")
Incomplete thought, there has been a couple of things that cops did that annoyed me. I was driving up a quiet stretch of I-35 late one night going to Dallas, and almost rear-ended a police cruiser doing 45, with all his lights off. I slowed down because I felt something was ahead of me more than because I saw anything, and then noticed the car in front of me. Seeing that he was a police car, I decided it might be unwise to pass him, but I didn’t want to be the creepy guy tailgaiting a cop in the middle of the night either, so I eventually switched lanes and crept past him. When he showed no signs of being about to pull me over for passing him, I went ahead and sped up to the regular speed limit of 65. Still can’t figure out what the heck that was about. ---
**Author:** ![filmyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@filmyak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmyak)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/37 "2006-10-21T19:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Virginia does not forbid cops from concealing themselves to run a speed trap. [/QUOTE] I used to live in Virginia – where radar detectors are illegal – and the argument was made that this was therefore a form of illegal search, much like a warrantless wiretap, as people had no way of knowing if they were being watched (due to the ban on radar detectors). IIRC, the workaround was that the police had to list all the locations of the day’s speedtraps in the newspaper. That way the traps weren’t secret. But enough people didn’t read the paper that the speedtraps were still effective. Anyone know if that’s true? Is it still in use? (I lived there over 20 years ago…) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/38 "2006-10-21T19:30:36Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Still can’t figure out what the heck that was about. [/QUOTE] Car trouble, maybe? In any case, I don’t understand why you think he’d pull you over for passing him. If he was going 45 and the speed limit is 65, you have every right to pass him if conditions are safe to do so and there were no signs or markings to prohibit passing. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/39 "2006-10-21T20:00:33Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Car trouble, maybe? In any case, I don’t understand why you think he’d pull you over for passing him. If he was going 45 and the speed limit is 65, you have every right to pass him if conditions are safe to do so and there were no signs or markings to prohibit passing. [/QUOTE] Right, but also, a big part of it is that I’ve got a type of personality that has been in the past described as being that of “An unusually smart sheeple”. If the cop was driving 45, I was inclined to believe there was a good reason to be. But I still was quite puzzled by the no lights thign going on. Might have been he was having some sort of electrical problem in his car, and was driving slow to avoid an accident in the dark (which, of course, made it all the more likely someone else might run into him). Not that my thought processes were functional enough that late at night to formulate these theories on the spot. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/40 "2006-10-22T00:38:15Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Why do so many dopers want to either (a) argue the legality of a LEO doing their job or (b) argue aspects of the law being enforced as opposed to (c) driving at the speed limit? Is this a brain buster? [/QUOTE] Maybe its because the speed limits are often too low or badly signposted? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238.md?page=3)