# Is it illegal for cops to hide to catch speeders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238 "2006-10-20T16:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/61 "2006-10-22T18:57:28Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] A homeowner just outside of Harpers Ferry WV used to have a **_Chevy_ Crown Vic** [/QUOTE] I bet he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![seenidog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@seenidog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seenidog)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/62 "2006-10-22T20:01:21Z")
What PKbites says is true, to accept free food or anything else is called bribery. A lotof the local eateries would give free coffeeto cops, and refuse to take payment, it was policy that you leave a tip in excess of the amount the coffee would cost. My 4 am donut/coffee runs were pushing the limits, but I got away with it because the RR station was not in the business of selling coffee, and she did get something in return, (Donuts), and the bakery was not open for business, and I was just quality checking, and they got something in return, Coffee from the RR station. I provided a service, transportaion. When it came to the attention of the chief I was told to knock it off, as I was in a gray area, and very dark gray at that. It evolved into am arrangement that all us night officers chipped in and paid the bakery like twenty dollars a month for an “All you can eat before the sun comes up” arrangement. It all went to heck when the Milwaukee road Rail Road was bought by SOO line, and they did away with the local dispatcher. No more coffee, no more donuts. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/63 "2006-10-22T22:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=seenidog] What PKbites says is true, to accept free food or anything else is called bribery. [/QUOTE] It falls under both the bribery statutes & the misconduct in public office statutes. Now, I don’t know of anyone ever prosecuted for getting a free coffee or lunch or petty things like that. But I do know of officers getting their ass chewed, suspended, and I know of one who got fired for taking free stuff. We are constantly being told about taking free stuff. Last summer we had to sit through a 45 minute power point presentation about it. Somebody must have gotten caught doing something for that to happen. What I find interesting is that most uniform & equipment stores have special discount prices for law enforcement. This seems to somewhat conflict with the last subsection of the misconduct law. [QUOTE=filmyak] the argument was made that this was therefore a form of illegal search, much like a warrantless wiretap, as people had no way of knowing if they were being watched [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t that argument also make plain clothes officers illegal too? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/64 "2006-10-23T00:31:03Z")
[QUOTE=Ignatz] I remember reading about the police in Wilmington, NC, catching speeders while using radar from a bucket truck bucket above the roadway, with the officer dressed as a utility worker with a hard hat, and also while shooting the radar thruough a hole in the side of a large cardboard box in which s/he was hiding. The box was in the bed of a parked pickup truck. There were “chase” cars or officers down the road a piece. [/QUOTE] In Georgia, at least one set of “county mounties” (Cobb County) gets around the 500-ft. visibility requirement by putting a cop with a radar gun on overpasses. Technically, you can see him from 500 feet away, but only if you happened to be looking up, and even then you might not guess what the guy standing on the overpass is up to…until you get close enough to see the radar gun. And by that time it’s too late. (Cobb County is a notorious speed trap north of Atlanta, situated on I-75-- a major route to Florida for those driving down from the central US and Canada. Be warned, Dopers.) ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/65 "2006-10-23T16:10:40Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] Probably not. I work for a department located in Milwaukee County. [/QUOTE] How would I recognize you if you pull me over?? 😉 As long as you’re in this thread; I find the unattended Sherrif vehicles on the side of the freeway troubling. They are easy targets for a car that looses control and they give someone that may be in an accident or broken down (within site of the vehicle) a false sense of security. If I’m in an accident or broken down near an unattended Sherrif’s vehicle I may be tempted to walk towards the vehicle to get his/her attention only to find out there’s no one in it. I think a better way to control speeding on the freeways around here would be to install the RADAR units that read out your speed and then maybe post a sign that reads, “Traffic passing this monitor may be under video surviellance” What say you? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/66 "2006-10-23T16:48:32Z")
I don’t get the objection to a cop “hiding” while doing radar. I understand no one wants to get a ticket. Is there a real objection to the tactic or do you just want a better chance of getting out of it? I saw earlier that someone felt it was a safety hazard, a patrol car leaving a spot and entering into traffic. I have seen many traffic surveys which cite excessive speed as a leading cause of collisions and death. Do you have a cite as to how many accidents were caused by “hidden” patrol cars? If the speed is clearly marked you are taking your chances while speeding. Most of the time you will get away with it. Sometimes you won’t. You made the choice. This does not include areas that are not clearly marked or where the speed drops quickly and there is a cop 10 feet further on. I don’t agreed with that and I would never do that. As for me, I never hide. I work mostly at night so the darkness is all I need. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/67 "2006-10-23T16:54:37Z")
So, **Loach** , does that make you some sort of… Police Ninja? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/68 "2006-10-23T17:03:44Z")
No just very tired. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/69 "2006-10-23T18:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] I have seen many traffic surveys which cite excessive speed as a leading cause of collisions and death. [/QUOTE] I have been a passenger or a driver in probably 4 collisions, none of them resulted in injuries and none of them were my fault (especially not as a passenger). In every single instance the police officer marked down “excessive speed” as the cause in the accident report. Not one of those was caused by “excessive speed” per se, they were all caused by not paying attention to the road. There is no safe speed if you are not paying attention to the road. IMO those studies are bollocks unless proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/70 "2006-10-23T18:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=groman] I have been a passenger or a driver in probably 4 collisions, none of them resulted in injuries and none of them were my fault (especially not as a passenger). In every single instance the police officer marked down “excessive speed” as the cause in the accident report. Not one of those was caused by “excessive speed” per se, they were all caused by not paying attention to the road. There is no safe speed if you are not paying attention to the road. IMO those studies are bollocks unless proven otherwise. [/QUOTE] That is a very scientific sampling. There are usually about 50,000 fatalities in the US per year due to motor vehicle collisions. Thats just the fatalities. There are hundreds of thousands of collisions a year. And your four accidents invalidates all the data. In my experience excessive speed is probably under used on reports. Lazy officers tend to use “driver inattention” as the catch all as a contributing factor. You can use it for just about anything, wasn’t paying attention to the weather, to the speed, to the signs… I’ve seen plenty of supervisors correcting reports and telling the officer to be more specific and not use “driver inattention”. Every state has there own style of MVC reports. I don’t know what the choices are on the reports where you are from. This year we started using a new version which greatly expends the types of conditions that can be cited as the contributing factors in a collision. It also allows for there to be several factors cited for each vehicle instead of having to pick just one. It is a big improvement and increases the accuracy of the reports. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/71 "2006-10-23T19:44:51Z")
[QUOTE=groman] I have been a passenger or a driver in probably 4 collisions, none of them resulted in injuries and none of them were my fault (especially not as a passenger). In every single instance the police officer marked down “excessive speed” as the cause in the accident report. Not one of those was caused by “excessive speed” per se, they were all caused by not paying attention to the road. There is no safe speed if you are not paying attention to the road. IMO those studies are bollocks unless proven otherwise. [/QUOTE] Recognizing that a plural of anecdotes ain’t data, of the several accidents I’ve been involved, only one did not involve excessive speed (and the only one I was at fault for – the officer listed all of the things I was _not_ guilty of, and then charged me with careless driving, which the judge threw out because the Crown presented no evidence of that violation – but I digress). Nonetheless, I firmly believe that far more attention should be paid to other dangerous driving practices. I suspect that speeding is a symptom of people who get into accidents, rather than something that causes accidents. It’s rarely the person who does 15 MPH/25 km/h over the limit in the left lane (or right lane for those of you who drive on the left side of the road), but doesn’t tailgate and signals their lane changes and actually stops for red lights that are causing accidents. It’s more often the idiot in the GM F-body who’s weaving through traffic at 25 MPH over, cutting people off and using exit ramps to bypass slower moving traffic that’s causing accidents. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/72 "2006-10-23T20:36:00Z")
The problem I have with unattended cars and mannequins and the [red light cameras](http://www.highwayrobbery.net/index.htm) that result in you getting a ticket in the mail with a picture of your license plate on it is that traffic stops go beyond just ticketing speeders. > [@](#): > > - 73% of all searches are non-consent searches: 74% on traffic stops and 68% on pedestrian stops. > - 17% of all searches are consent searches: 14% on traffic stops and 25% on pedestrian stops. > - During consent searches, officers found illegal items 17% of the time overall: 14% of the time on traffic stops and 24% of the time on pedestrian stops. > - The illegal items found most often were drugs _(56% of seizures)_, drug paraphernalia (20%) and weapons (6%.) Statistics refer to police activity in Austin,TX. Emphasis mine. [http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/action/2003\_profiling.htm](http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/action/2003_profiling.htm) I haven’t found any information about drunk driving arrests that stem from standard traffic stops, but I can almost guarantee that a human officer is better at detecting the smell of alcohol than a mannequin. If the car is hidden, there a better chance the LEO will catch someone with guns or drugs instead of just letting them cruise by at 55. ---
**Author:** ![Spezza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Spezza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spezza)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/73 "2006-10-23T23:38:56Z")
[QUOTE=Carlyjay] AFAIK, it’s illegal for police to hide in Ontario to catch speeders. And areas that had speed cameras instead of officers had to be clearly marked, as do “red-light” cameras. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen a motorcycle cop neatly camouflaged behind a roadside sign here in Ontario. His bike was well hidden behind the sign. The cop was standing behind the sign, with the radar unit perched on top of the sign. As I sped past all I saw was his head and radar unit. If that isn’t “hiding” I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/74 "2006-10-24T05:49:09Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] I don’t get the objection to a cop “hiding” while doing radar. I understand no one wants to get a ticket. Is there a real objection to the tactic or do you just want a better chance of getting out of it? I saw earlier that someone felt it was a safety hazard, a patrol car leaving a spot and entering into traffic. I have seen many traffic surveys which cite excessive speed as a leading cause of collisions and death. Do you have a cite as to how many accidents were caused by “hidden” patrol cars? If the speed is clearly marked you are taking your chances while speeding. Most of the time you will get away with it. Sometimes you won’t. You made the choice. This does not include areas that are not clearly marked or where the speed drops quickly and there is a cop 10 feet further on. I don’t agreed with that and I would never do that. As for me, I never hide. I work mostly at night so the darkness is all I need. [/QUOTE] Personally, I would prefer that all cops hide. No, I’m not nuts. Yes I drive over the speed limit (often) when it is safe. What bugs me about a police car parked by the side of the road, it that the guy in front of me, no matter what his speed feels that it is the law that he must slow down by at least 5 mph. When he is already 7 under the posted limit this just pisses me off. So hide all you want, it makes traffic flow better. If you catch me, no worries. I will wish you a good day, and shake your hand. ---
**Author:** ![Jake4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jake4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake4)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/75 "2006-10-24T15:09:21Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Incomplete thought, there has been a couple of things that cops did that annoyed me. I was driving up a quiet stretch of I-35 late one night going to Dallas, and almost rear-ended a police cruiser doing 45, with all his lights off. I slowed down because I felt something was ahead of me more than because I saw anything, and then noticed the car in front of me. Seeing that he was a police car, I decided it might be unwise to pass him, but I didn’t want to be the creepy guy tailgaiting a cop in the middle of the night either, so I eventually switched lanes and crept past him. When he showed no signs of being about to pull me over for passing him, I went ahead and sped up to the regular speed limit of 65. Still can’t figure out what the heck that was about. [/QUOTE] Now THAT sounds dangerous. And illegal. It’s one thing to be on the shoulder w/your lights off, but this is another situation entirely. ---
**Author:** ![UntouchedTakeaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d78d45/32.png) [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/76 "2006-10-24T15:31:51Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] Several times over the summer, the police here set up lawn chairs. Once, the officer with the radar gun was sitting right in the median. The chase cars were lined up at the next cross street. There were five chase cars and they were kept very busy. You don’t need to hide to have a speed trap. They also use shadow cars. Unmarked cars that radio ahead to marked cars to pull over speeders. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen this maneuver in NJ, too (waving to Loach from Morris County 😛 ) Cop #1 stands with the radar gun while his posse is up ahead. He’s on a cell phone or a walkie-talkie giving them the description of the car in question. Come around the corner & instand Checkpoint Chickie. VCNJ~ ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/77 "2006-10-24T17:49:25Z")
[QUOTE=Veuve\_ClicquotNJ] I’ve seen this maneuver in NJ, too (waving to Loach from Morris County 😛 ) Cop #1 stands with the radar gun while his posse is up ahead. He’s on a cell phone or a walkie-talkie giving them the description of the car in question. Come around the corner & instand Checkpoint Chickie. VCNJ~ [/QUOTE] Waving back from Hunderton County. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/78 "2006-10-24T19:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper] Speed kills. [/QUOTE] \ This is not true. Distractions are the leading factor in most crashes and near crashes. [Cite](http://nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.416f74e8613992381601031046108a0c/?javax.portlet.tpst=4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_viewID=detail_view&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=token&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=token&itemID=71052f9b8559a010VgnVCM1000002c567798RCRD&viewType=standard). Ask yourself this question: Would you rather share a mile of road with 1. 10 sports car drivers who are watching the road carefully, avoiding traffic and anticipating other drivers, all the while speeding; or 2. 10 SUV drivers, each with a car filled with screaming kids, talking on their cell phones, listening to the DVD player while obeying the speed limit? In which scenario are you safer? This is an extreme example of course. In the real world there are plenty of drivers who are dangerously speeding and need to be stopped. But the primary focus on **stopping speeders** has distracted from the real goal, which is **ensuring the safety of drivers**. Speed traps only catch speeders who may or may not be dangerous. The focus should be catching and stopping the most dangerous drivers. \ ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238/79 "2006-10-24T20:44:10Z")
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus] \ This is not true. Distractions are the leading factor in most crashes and near crashes. [Cite](http://nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.416f74e8613992381601031046108a0c/?javax.portlet.tpst=4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_viewID=detail_view&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=token&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=token&itemID=71052f9b8559a010VgnVCM1000002c567798RCRD&viewType=standard). Ask yourself this question: Would you rather share a mile of road with 1. 10 sports car drivers who are watching the road carefully, avoiding traffic and anticipating other drivers, all the while speeding; or 2. 10 SUV drivers, each with a car filled with screaming kids, talking on their cell phones, listening to the DVD player while obeying the speed limit? In which scenario are you safer? This is an extreme example of course. In the real world there are plenty of drivers who are dangerously speeding and need to be stopped. But the primary focus on **stopping speeders** has distracted from the real goal, which is **ensuring the safety of drivers**. Speed traps only catch speeders who may or may not be dangerous. The focus should be catching and stopping the most dangerous drivers. \ [/QUOTE] ::: Aplauds::: Excellent post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-for-cops-to-hide-to-catch-speeders/377238.md?page=3)