# Is it illegal to belong to the Mafia?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 22, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752 "2006-08-22T14:47:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/1 "2006-08-22T14:47:29Z")
In other words, is the Mafia a proscribed organisation in the US? If the authorities have evidence that someone is a ‘made’ man and has been through the initiation ritual (as described by Valachi and others), is that enough, in and of itself, to convict him of a crime?
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/2 "2006-08-22T14:59:48Z")
See the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1961, et seq., (known as the “Rico Act”):
> [@Section 1962 of the Rico Act](#):
>
> Sec. 1962. Prohibited activities
>
> (a) It shall be unlawful for any person who has received any income derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of racketeering activity or through \*\*collection of an unlawful debt \*\*in which such person has participated as a principal within the meaning of section 2, title 18, United States Code, to use or invest, directly or indirectly, any part of such income, or the proceeds of such income, in acquisition of any interest in, or the establishment or operation of, any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce. A purchase of securities on the open market for purposes of investment, and without the intention of controlling or participating in the control of the issuer, or of assisting another to do so, shall not be unlawful under this subsection if the securities of the issuer held by the purchaser, the members of his immediate family, and his or their accomplices in any pattern or racketerring activity or the collection of an unlawful debt after such purchase do not amount in the aggregate to one percent of the outstanding securities of any one class, and do not confer, either in law or in fact, the power to elect one or more directors of the issuer.
>
> (b) It shall be unlawful for any person through a pattern of racketeering activity or through collection of any unlawful debt to acquire or maintain, directly or indirectly, any interest in or control of any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce.
>
> © It shall be unlawful for any person employed by or associated with any enterprise engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce, to conduct or participate, directly or indirectly, in the conduct of such enterprise’s affairs through a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of unlawful debt.
>
> (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to \*\*conspire \*\*to violate any of the provisions of subsection (a), (b), or © of this section.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/3 "2006-08-22T15:23:36Z")
Intersting cite, but not responsive to the question. The OP is not asking about whether it’s illegal to engage in racketeering. The question is whether simply belonging to the Mafia is illegal.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/4 "2006-08-22T15:27:59Z")
I would say it’s virtually impossible to belong to the Mafia without being, at the very least, an accessory to some felony. Even if you were only driving Uncle Vito around while he was collecting “donations” from neighbourhood businessmen.
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### Author:  [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/5 "2006-08-22T15:31:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Otto Intersting cite, but not responsive to the question. The OP is not asking about whether it’s illegal to engage in racketeering. The question is whether simply belonging to the Mafia is illegal.
But it is responsive to the question. According to RICO, even being a member would be enough to get you.
From the RICO act:
> [@](#):
>
> © **It shall be unlawful for any person employed by or associated with any enterprise engaged in** , or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce, to conduct or participate, **directly or indirectly** , in the conduct of such enterprise’s affairs through a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of unlawful debt.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/6 "2006-08-22T15:32:20Z")
In each case, the government has to prove that the person is a member of an illegal organization as defined by the act.
I doubt very much that in the American legal system it is possible to simply define “the Mafia” as an illegal organization. First of all, there is no formal entity named “the Mafia” and whatever it is, it’s not a single, cohesive entity.
Second, it would seem to me that a declaration that “Belonging to X organization will be punishable as a crime” would be unconstitutional for several reasons (off the top of my head, First Amendment, Fifth Amendment, Sixth Amendment, and possibly Article I, Section 9).
So, in order to answer the question, you have to go through the Rico Act and figure out: (1) What do I mean by “the Mafia”? and (2) Is this a racketeer-influenced or corrupt organization under this act? and (3) Is the so-called “member” doing something in relationship to this organization that is illegal under this act?
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/7 "2006-08-22T15:37:40Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> I would say it’s virtually impossible to belong to the Mafia without being, at the very least, an accessory to some felony. Even if you were only driving Uncle Vito around while he was collecting “donations” from neighbourhood businessmen.
This might be true, but it has no legal relevance. You have to be charged with something – in your example, either accessory to extortion or violation of the Rico Act.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/8 "2006-08-22T15:53:52Z")
> [@FormerMarineGuy](#):
>
> But it is responsive to the question. According to RICO, even being a member would be enough to get you.
>
> From the RICO act:
But you’re bolding the wrong part of the act:
> [@RICO](#):
>
> (c) It shall be unlawful for any person employed by or associated with any enterprise engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce, **to conduct or participate** , directly or indirectly, in the conduct of such enterprise’s affairs through a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of unlawful debt.
The young mafioso would need to actually _do_ something to be dinged under RICO. That an organization that’s engaged in RICO violations is not legally sufficient to convict every single member of that organization.
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### Author:  [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/9 "2006-08-22T16:00:04Z")
I agree with Otto.
To be liable under section 1962(c), a person must participate in the operation or management of the enterprise itself. \*Reves v. Ernst & Young, 507 U.S. 170 \*(1993).
From [here](http://www.ricoact.com/ricoact/nutshell.asp#conclusion)
This would seem to indicate that mere membership in the organization is not sufficient. However, it could very well be argued that in order to gain membership in the first place (i.e. to become a “made man”), one would have to had “participated” in the activities to a large extent.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/10 "2006-08-22T16:21:08Z")
How does the government prove membership in the mafia? Suppose you worked for Don Vito Corleone-did you get a paystube emblazoned with “Genco Puro olive Oil Co,- a subsidiary of the Corleone Crime family”? The late John Gotti was the boss of the NY Mob-but held a job as a plumbing supply salesman.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/11 "2006-08-22T16:52:49Z")
Let’s define what “belong to the Mafia” means, precisely. They don’t issue membership cards, after all.
In my view, you cannot meaningfully belong to the Mafia without violating the law. But that conclusion is reached because (as I understand it) you don’t simply “belong” in the same way you belong to the Masons, the Rotary, or the Elk. YOu “belong” to the Mafia by participating in their illegal activities, any one of which is …er… well, illegal.
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### Author:  [@KlondikeGeoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KlondikeGeoff)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/12 "2006-08-22T17:07:33Z")
**Is it illegal to belong to the Mafia?**
Why? Are you being recruited? :eek:
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/13 "2006-08-22T17:09:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> This might be true, but it has no legal relevance. You have to be charged with something – in your example, either accessory to extortion or violation of the Rico Act.
My point is that the OP is the equivalent of asking, “Is it illegal to belong to a gang that robs banks?” The answer being yes, because it’s illegal to rob banks. If you’re not robbing banks, you’re not really part of a gang - you’re just hanging out with people in a gang.
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### Author:  [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/14 "2006-08-22T17:22:11Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> My point is that the OP is the equivalent of asking, “Is it illegal to belong to a gang that robs banks?” The answer being yes, because it’s illegal to rob banks. If you’re not robbing banks, you’re not really part of a gang - you’re just hanging out with people in a gang.
Well, not exactly. The whole purpose of the RICO act was to convict people of conspiring and organizing activities that are illegal without having to convict them of the acts themselves. If I “lead” a gang of bank robbers through organizing and planning the robberies, but I don’t participate in the actual robberies, I can be still be charged under the RICO act.
OK, it’s a little more complicted than that, I know. But that’s the gist of it.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/15 "2006-08-23T05:18:41Z")
But if you’re planning and organizing the robberies you’re an accessory, regardless of what charges you were indicted on for RICO purposes.
The Mafia, as it exists, is an inherently criminal organization. Its sole purpose is to commit crimes or support the commission of crimes. So if you’re a member you’re doing something illegal.
To give a counter-example, consider the Ku Klux Klan. It’s a vile organization and it certainly has often committed crimes but it’s not an inherently criminal organization. It would be possible for somebody to argue that they’re a law abiding racist who joined the KKK only for the purpose of wearing a white sheet and marching in public parades while shouting racist slogans.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/16 "2006-08-23T12:31:43Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> The Mafia, as it exists, is an inherently criminal organization. Its sole purpose is to commit crimes or support the commission of crimes. So if you’re a member you’re doing something illegal.
“He’s doing something illegal” really doesn’t read all that well on an indictment. “Belonging to the Mafia” is not AFAIK spelled out as a crime in any statute I’m aware of.
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### Author:  [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/17 "2006-08-23T17:18:19Z")
You could quite easily be carrying out perfectly legal work on behalf of mafia memebers, you could be a lawyer, or simply a gardener.
I doubt that organised crime exists solely for the purpose of carrying out crime, it exists to provide profit for those who are part of the group, some activities will be highly illegal, but others will not.
I’ll concede that probably most of the legal activities, such as investment in real estate etc, may well be funded from the proceeds of crime, but there is still acertain amount of legal activity, this is what provides cover for such individuals, and anyway, if a criminal can find a legal opportunity for profit, they are plenty likely to take it.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/18 "2006-08-23T17:18:26Z")
But if you were to ask some Mafioso “Does this guy belong to the Mafia?” he would honestly answer, “No, he never worked with us.” The Mafia doesn’t give out honorary memberships; you join the Mafia by doing something illegal with the Mafia. So if you haven’t done something illegal, you haven’t joined the Mafia.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/19 "2006-08-23T17:21:34Z")
My last post was addressed to Otto’s not casdave’s.
Casdave, you’re essentially wrong. A gardener or a lawyer does not belong to the Mafia even if they’re working for somebody who does.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-belong-to-the-mafia/369752/20 "2006-08-23T17:56:13Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> But if you were to ask some Mafioso “Does this guy belong to the Mafia?” he would honestly answer, “No, he never worked with us.” The Mafia doesn’t give out honorary memberships; you join the Mafia by doing something illegal with the Mafia. So if you haven’t done something illegal, you haven’t joined the Mafia.
I think you’ll find it very difficult to identify “memberships” with regard to the “Mafia” at all. And that’s the point. The law is not going to look for a membership card. It’s going to ask whether the organization that you are identifying as “the Mafia” is illegal as defined by the Rico Act and it’s going to look at whether this putative “member” of this organization is doing something that’s punishable under the Rico Act.