# Is it illegal to conquer the World?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 27, 2001, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174 "2001-09-27T20:04:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@SpinneZiege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpinneZiege)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/21 "2001-09-28T04:16:38Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by waterj2 \*
> **Or perhaps they’d just have the trial in a country that doesn’t have a constituional prohibition of _ex post facto_ laws.**
Are there even any countries that don’t have those anymore? I mean, most people realize how unfair that is now, right?
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### Author:  [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/22 "2001-09-28T04:28:21Z")
[QUOTE]
\*Originally posted by waterj2 \*
\*\*
> [@](#):
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> I don’t believe that there is anywhere in the world that not part of some country.
> \*\*
If I recall correctly, the continent of Antarctica doesn’t belong to any one country.
Buck The Diver \<—begins his conquest there
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### Author:  [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/23 "2001-09-28T04:30:04Z")
Which are you? Brain or Snowball?
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/24 "2001-09-28T04:47:58Z")
Just remeber that if you conquer the world, you are now responsible for RUNNING it. I suspect that part of the job is not as glamorous.
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### Author:  [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/25 "2001-09-28T04:51:13Z")
I see **Buck** beat me to it. Oh well.
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by waterj2 \*
> **I don’t believe that there is anywhere in the world that not part of some country.**
Antarctica, under the Antarctic Treaty, is at present basically international territory. Notwithstanding the fact that several signatories have overlapping claims, or as in the case of the US, have reserved the right to make such claims at a later date. However, there is a part of the continent (between 90º West and 150º West) where no specific claim has been made.([map](http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/ant.cia.gif))
The downside is that in spite of no claims in a particular area, you’re still stuck with that treaty. And industrial production, such as that needed to produce your robots, would probably violate the treaty or its protocols.
> [@](#):
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> Any activity relating to mineral resources, other than scientific research, shall be prohibited.
Moreover, you have to worry about the other signatories getting in your hair, and you don’t have much opportunity to gum up the bureaucratic works until you become a party to the treaty. That’s not likely to fly with parties that have for the time being suspended any implementation of their territorial claims. Meanwhile,
> [@](#):
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> 1. Each Party shall take appropriate measures within its competence, including the adoption of laws and regulations, administrative actions and enforcement measures, to ensure compliance with this Protocol.
>
> 2. Each Party shall exert appropriate efforts, consistent with the Charter of the United Nations, to the end that no one engages in any activity contrary to this Protocol.
> [@](#):
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> **book…published by Loompanics…it was cited in a column on the subject of starting one’s own country**
That column would be [How do I go about starting my own country?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_300.html)
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/26 "2001-09-28T06:41:32Z")
> [@](#):
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> Umm… wouldn’t those provisions more or less make the entire United States Communist Party illegal? Or does the party backpedal on it’s dogma of a worker’s revolution, and claim it simply seeks to work within the provisions of the Constitution?
The law beatle quotes just says the Communists can’t overthrow the government. Nothing in it prohibits them from taking over the government; if it did, Robert Dole could have been arrested for trying to take over the government in 1996. Presumedly the goals of the United States Communist Party are to elect sufficient representatives into various legislative bodies so that they can enact laws creating a Marxist worker’s state.
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### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/27 "2001-09-28T13:56:36Z")
Ok, then. Let’s say I do it on Tuvalu. Tuvalu is a group of islands (corral atolls) near Australia, and their own nation of 11,000 citizens.
Tuvalu has been slowly sinking and is expected to be uninhabitable in th next ten years. They blame greenhouse gases and rising sea levels created by the US and other industrialized nations.
So let’s say I take over Tuvalu, and I convert it’s 11,000 citiznes into unstoppable cyborg beserkers.
Next, I issue an ultimatum to the US and the world in general. Cease all industrial activity immediately, as it is destroying our nation, or we will cease it for you.
The next day, following proper protocols, I declare war.
I conquer the world, return it to a pre-industrial state, thus saving my nation’s environment.
Since I’m only doing it to protect my nation (heh, heh) it’s not a war of aggression, but rather one of defense, and thus allowable under the Hague conventions.
Would that be legal?
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### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/28 "2001-09-28T13:58:00Z")
Plus, I save money this way, as unstoppable cyborg beserkers are a lot cheaper than invincible robots.
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### Author:  [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/29 "2001-09-28T14:23:20Z")
You conquers the world, you makes the rules.
I wager there’ll be a lot of toadying lawyers eager to defend your actions in exchange for a position in your hierarchy.
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### Author:  [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/30 "2001-09-28T14:23:49Z")
The problem **Scylla** is that “law” is a social construct - international law, at any given time, is determined by what the nations holding the power (economic and military) agree on. The Hague Convention, The Geneva Convention, The Berne Convention, The NATO treaty, the ANZUS treaty, are basically just agreements made amongst friends. We agree to pay the penalties if we don’t honour the commitments we have made under those contracts, but who (realistically) is going to “make” us pay? The ICJ? Strangely enough, a lot of the signatories to the above name treaties/conventions do not recognise the ICJ (hint, in particular, the US doesn’t).
Have you violated any laws? Very probably. But even if you have, who is going to punish you, and how, and by what authority?
And I suspect that Tuvalu has now (quite illegally in terms of international law) been excluded from our immigration zone and so we won’t give a toss. (in joke about my nation’s current immigration policies)
I’m not trying to be a smartarse here **Scylla** , merely trying to point out that “law” isn’t an absolute, and just as the victors get to write the history, they also get to write the laws. There **is** no supreme, impartial referee who determines these questions on this planet - its a committee thing, and we all know about committees.
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### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/31 "2001-09-28T14:35:18Z")
Reprise:
I understand. I think it’s cheating to change the laws after the fact. My sense of honor an fair play demands that I follow protocols presently in place.
If I broke the law while conquering the world, then my personal honor would demand that I turn myself in. Since nobody else would have the power to do it, I’d have to arrest myself.
If I didn’t I would just prove myself to be another self-aggrandizing and ruthless despot.
This is gonna be pretty big, and I need to make sure I don’t step on anybody’s toes or do anything out of line by accident.
So, would my Tuvaluan plan be legal? If not, what laws would I be breaking?
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/32 "2001-09-28T16:30:03Z")
It will take a while to confirm this. I have roughly
18 boxes of roughly 500 comic books each. But Doom has gone
from the supervillian/Hitler-in-armor of the 60’s and 70’s to a man who loves his country (Latveria), and is loved by its people. Since the make over, Doom has been recognised by the UN as the legal ruler of a sovereign nation. During the Trial Of Magneto series(memory fuzzy here don’t own copy), Mags was given the same status. As such his actions against the US military were not the actions of an individual and subject to prosecution. They were the acts of the armed forces of one country on the armed forces of another. At that point. Magneto was released because he did not initiate the combat, and the UN has yet to interpret international law as it applies to the Master of Magnetism.
So, once you gain recognition as leader of your own nation (Brainainia, Asteroid M, etc) just declare war on whoever you want to take over and send in the cyborgs.
TIP For Would Be Conquerors-Give employees a generous pension, 2 weeks paid vacation each year, and on firdays serve burgers, pretzels and German beer. It worked for Hank Scorpio.
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### Author:  [@epolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epolo)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/33 "2001-09-28T16:45:11Z")
**Scylla** , wouldn’t it be easier to simply _declare_ yourself Emperor of the World and then start a campaign to get your supreme rule recognized?
That would seem to be more consistent with the idea of fair play. If people recognize your rule voluntarily, because you’ve promised them a chicken in every pot or a $300 tax rebate or some such ridiculous thing, then it should be consistent with the principle of self determiniation.
Also, you’d only need an army of unstoppable cyborg beserkers, you’d just need an army of unstoppable cyborg petitioners, lobbyists, and pollsters, readily available in Washington DC.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/34 "2001-09-28T16:52:04Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Scylla \*
> **Say I renounce my citizenship, move onto a deserted Island, and declare myself a sovereign nation. From there I manufacture an army of unstoppable robots. I send them to the US first and they destroy all military weapons (without killing anybody. I’m not a maniac, you know,) and then seize control of all government infrastructure. Once this accomplished I then install myself as Supreme Ruler, abolish the Constitution and Bill of Rights by decree, and declare America Scillyland.**
and
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by dqa \*
> The downside is that in spite of no claims in a particular area, you’re still stuck with that treaty. And industrial production, such as that needed to produce your robots, would probably violate the treaty or its protocols
And thus, we have the real reason behind the Kyoto protocols: to prevent the manufacture of armies of unstoppable robots. 😃
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### Author:  [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/35 "2001-09-28T19:53:15Z")
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> _originally posted by Otto_
> At this time I would like to declare for the record that I am forming a society, group or assembly of persons to advocate for the desirability of the violent overthrow of my local school board.
>
> Bring on the feds.
**Otto** , you need a door. If they don’t have a door to kick down they’ll ignore you.
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### Author:  [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2001, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/36 "2001-09-28T22:10:51Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Scylla \*
> Ok, then. Let’s say I do it on Tuvalu. Tuvalu is a group of islands (corral atolls) near Australia, and their own nation of 11,000 citizens.
> …
> So let’s say I take over Tuvalu, and I convert it’s 11,000 citiznes into unstoppable cyborg beserkers.
> Since I’m only doing it to protect my nation (heh, heh) it’s not a war of aggression, but rather one of defense, and thus allowable under the Hague conventions.
>
> Would that be legal?
I’m not sure I can see how your plan gets to first base i.e. how do you take over Tuvalu without violating their laws. [The CIA Factbook - Tuvalu (??!!)](http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tv.html)
Their head of State is QEII, and I think elements of your plan are going to get right up Bessie Windsor’s nostrils. And that’s before you get to the cyborg beserkers phase. Not that your plan mightn’t succeed, just questioning the legality of it.
Would also bet that you’d look to move your centre of government off the Tuvalu Atoll asap to some more permanent and prominant real estate. It is inevitiable that any such construction and transfer of title will violate some council building regulation ordinances in the process. 🙂
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### Author:  [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2001, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/37 "2001-09-29T00:07:00Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by lucwarm \*
> For starters, **attempted** tresspassing.
(bolding mine)
If you’re trying to take over the world, and you can’t even manage to follow through with tresspassing, you really need to find a new line of work.
😉
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### Author:  [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-conquer-the-world/84174/38 "2001-09-29T00:30:57Z")
There is a passage I like in _Shogun_ where Toranaga tells Blackthorne “There is no excuse for betraying your liege lord!” and Blackthorne replies, “Unless you win.” Toranaga thinks about it for second and then laughs uproariously, conceding that is the one exception.
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