# Is it illegal to destroy a scammers computer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748 "2019-01-14T18:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/1 "2019-01-14T18:04:30Z")
I’ve been watching some videos with scam baiters. Some of them just waste the scammers time (like I do from time to time) but some of them will wreck their computers. So two different scenarios: 1 - In some cases, they do this by Trojan horse. I.e. they’ll have a file marked “Credit Card Information” or “Bank Information” but is actually an infected exe. The scammer downloads the file, and once they run it their computer is done. 2 - In some cases, they reverse the connection allowing them control of the scammers PC. They then either syskey the computer or in some cases try to get an infected file onto their PC, and execute it. So what is the legality of this? It seems that, while righteous, it would be illegal. Of course, the scammers have little recourse to complain. It seems unlikely that anybody would bother prosecute (and good luck getting a jury to convict). ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/2 "2019-01-14T18:28:20Z")
IANAL and the legality probably varies by jurisdiction. I’d say 2 is almost certainly illegal in most jurisdictions. 1 is probably is more questionable as the scammers are being proactive in stealing the file from you. I’d guess if all the facts are known and could be proved, it would be illegal at least in some places just as booby trapping your car in a way that can cause injury is illegal in many places. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/3 "2019-01-14T18:30:56Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I’d guess if all the facts are known and could be proved, it would be illegal at least in some places just as booby trapping your car in a way that can cause injury is illegal in many places. Not the same. In the US the courts hold that protection of property through a boobytrap is illegal because of the possibility of injury or death. That is not what happens when boobytrapping software. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/4 "2019-01-14T19:44:39Z")
[All 50 states have computer crime laws](http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/computer-hacking-and-unauthorized-access-laws.aspx). There is also a [federal statute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act), but I don’t know that requires interstate hacking for it to kick in. And I don’t know if any of these laws prevent you from hacking someone in another country, which I am sure is where many of these scammers are. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/5 "2019-01-15T00:02:46Z")
The term for this at the corporate / governmental level is “active defense” (i.e., the best defense is a good defense). Here is a [review of the current laws (PDF)](https://files.alston.com/files/docs/Cyber%20Alert%20-%20Legal%20Issues%20(2).pdf). The Federal government is currently deciding a new standard, though, that might allow for greater freedom in this realm. The last overview of the proposal, that I read, was that corporations would be free to hit back at anyone abroad, but they had to register a request with the FBI and get approval for it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/6 "2019-01-15T00:12:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In the US the courts hold that protection of property through a boobytrap is illegal because of the possibility of injury or death. I’m challenging only the “because” part of this statement. Can you provide a reference to a legal decision that made that specific claim? That is, it would have been found not illegal if such a possibility did not exist? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/7 "2019-01-15T12:23:07Z")
Scambaiting is a sport and wasting their time and money,keeping the scammers away from real potential victims and screwing around with the minds of deserving thieves. If you fancy trying it, here is an excellent website for advice and success stories. > **[419 Eater - The largest scambaiting community on the planet!](https://www.419eater.com/)** > > 419Eater.com is a website dedicated to the fight against 419 and Internet scams. Read about the exploits of our anti scam Scam Baiters who fight the good fight by taking on the scammers, wasting their time and saving victims from further losses. Join... > [@](#): > > Scambaiting is not a racist activity. Anyone with racist views is most definitely NOT welcome on this site. 419eater maintains a ZERO TOLERANCE policy towards racism throughout the site and forums. > > It is important to understand that scambaiters only respond to scam emails we receive. Unfortunately is is a sad fact of life that the majority of “419” scams do in fact originate from Western and Southern Africa - we estimate 50% - 55% of “419” scam attempts are sent from Western & Southern Africa - but these scams also come from places such as England, Spain, Ireland, USA, Canada, The Netherlands, Australia and many more. > > For the most part these criminals are not, “poor people trying to scratch a living”, but are very prosperous compared to their law-abiding countrymen, and many operate in highly organised, and highly successful criminal gangs. Millions of dollars are stolen on a DAILY basis, with absolutely no thought given to victims, who are losing vast amounts of money, homes, relatives, jobs and worse. Contrary to popular belief, it is not just “greedy & stupid people” that fall for these scams. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/9 "2019-02-20T15:13:34Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Can you provide a reference to a legal decision that made that specific claim? That is, it would have been found not illegal if such a possibility did not exist? Katko v. Briney ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/10 "2019-02-20T17:11:44Z")
So if a criminal tries to burgle my house, and I break his burglary tools, is that illegal? Not that I think it’s likely that the burglar would go to the police about it. (Nor would these scammers from Nigeria or wherever.) But nowadays, I suppose they could find a shyster lawyer to sue me in Civil Court. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/11 "2019-02-20T17:35:05Z")
Legal or not, what jury is going to convict? \*\* Prosecuter:\*\* I am going to show how the defendant willfully and maliciously destroyed the property of [SuckEmDry.com](http://SuckEmDry.com) and… (pauses as the foreman of the jury rises) **FotJ:** (glancing at the other jurors who nod in confimation) We, the jury find the defendant not guilty. **Prosecutor:** But I haven’t presented my case! **Judge:** Yes, you have; defendant, you’re free to go. Counselor, I’d like to see you in my chambers. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/12 "2019-02-20T18:02:07Z")
N.B. computer viruses do not (normally…) cause an infected computer to explode, become a brick, or otherwise be rendered unusable. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/13 "2019-02-20T20:29:48Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I’m challenging only the “because” part of this statement. Can you provide a reference to a legal decision that made that specific claim? That is, it would have been found not illegal if such a possibility did not exist? > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Katko v. Briney Specifically this case said if you are at home, sure, you may grab your shotgun to repel an active intruder; **but** if you’re \*not \*home then you may \*not \*leave a tripwired shotgun set to blast whoever comes in. > [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > So if a criminal tries to burgle my house, and I break his burglary tools, is that illegal? If he’s in the process of attempting the burglary and your actions to deter/repel the burglary and/or chase him away result in the destruction or seizure of his tools, you should be within your rights. But the Law will probably not be as sympathetic if you wait a couple of days and go into his garage in the night to wreck his property. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/14 "2019-02-21T00:41:10Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Specifically this case said if you are at home, sure, you may grab your shotgun to repel an active intruder; **but** if you’re \*not \*home then you may \*not \*leave a tripwired shotgun set to blast whoever comes in. Ummmm … yeah. Remember that the conversation was about boobytraps specifically and if boobytrapping software is illegal because boobytrapping your home is illegal. Not sure how your point about stand your ground applies. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/15 "2019-02-21T03:36:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Ummmm … yeah. Remember that the conversation was about boobytraps specifically and if boobytrapping software is illegal because boobytrapping your home is illegal. Not sure how your point about stand your ground applies. It was addressed in the case – a state case in Iowa – as the distinction on when you can take a certain kind of action against an intruder. The court found that boobytrapping your home went beyond the bounds of what was reasonable self defense. Which ISTM raises the question, is software running in the background to thwart an attempted hack or scam by causing retaliatory or preemptive damage to the intruding system akin to a passive boobytrap, or to active defense? ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/16 "2019-02-21T05:29:20Z")
Boobytrapping home: can ( is designed to) physically hurt a person. Not sure how boobytrapping a computer is similar. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/17 "2019-02-21T05:57:41Z")
Damaging somebody else’s property (i.e. hacking their computer) is a crime. One of the definitions of hacking includes (quoting from memory here, so not exact language) ‘accessing another persons network, devices, system or resource without permission’. scenario 2 definitely matches this. The first scenario is called ‘phishing’ when it’s done to innocent consumers and also considered a crime. I’m not aware of ANY legal principle that legalizes revenge. I’m pretty sure the hacking laws don’t exclude systems and resources owned by hackers. I know for a fact, the police needed a warrant to hack the Silk Road servers a few years ago, and even that was challenged at trial. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/18 "2019-02-21T14:01:26Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > IANAL and the legality probably varies by jurisdiction. > > I’d say 2 is almost certainly illegal in most jurisdictions. 1 is probably is more questionable as the scammers are being proactive in stealing the file from you. I’d guess if all the facts are known and could be proved, it would be illegal at least in some places just as booby trapping your car in a way that can cause injury is illegal in many places. There’s a big difference. Booby trapping a vehicle is frowned upon because they are typically in a public place and there could be instances where first responders / law enforcement need to get/look inside a vehicle. There is no way in hell anybody needs remote access to my files without my permission. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/19 "2019-02-21T14:17:02Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > So if a criminal tries to burgle my house, and I break his burglary tools, is that illegal? > > Not that I think it’s likely that the burglar would go to the police about it. (Nor would these scammers from Nigeria or wherever.) But nowadays, I suppose they could find a shyster lawyer to sue me in Civil Court. Think about it this way. To make it a closer analogy, imagine you went to the burglar’s house, broke in, rummaged through his things to find his tools, and broke them after finding them. Would you expect to be prosecuted if caught? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/20 "2019-02-21T16:43:29Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > I’m not aware of ANY legal principle that legalizes revenge. True. The Law recognizes and allows private self defense and _reasonable_ protective measures, but discourages private revenge and retaliation and excessive response, as the whole point is that it is the society/state who assumes the punitive function. Where do you draw the difference is itself up to the Law to define — it may or may not have done so on a specific case, though. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748/21 "2019-02-21T16:57:05Z")
As **DesertDog** mentions, this is a case for jury nullification if there ever was one. Whatever scammer tries to sue someone for destroying his computer, or have him criminally charged, had better hope I’m not on the jury. Because I am voting Not Guilty/finding for the defendant, instantly and automatically, and I am never going to change my vote. Regards, Shodan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-illegal-to-destroy-a-scammers-computer/827748.md?page=2)