# Is it immoral to block advertisements? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 5, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234 "2013-06-05T19:46:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/161 "2013-06-13T04:12:59Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > The compact does exist and millions of people participate in it. Maybe participate is the wrong word though, because it implies participating is an active choice whereas not participating is the active choice. No compact exists. Society has not created it. Social compacts are created and codified by society. > [@](#): > > It has allowed for the website’s existence and it is implicit in the consumption of the content itself in the same way that being courteous to other bus riders is implicit in making use of the bus. Millions of others flaunt it because they can’t stomach the slight inconvenience of ads, which has caused real struggles for the websites and for the conscientious people who enjoy them with the ads. No compact is implicit in consumption of content. Malware is a very real threat, not a “slight inconvenience”. > [@](#): > > Adblockers are taking advantage of the sacrifices others make for this very reasonable and straightforward compact. There is no compact. > [@](#): > > As I’ve said many, many times in this thread, it is immoral simply because you are manipulating the website in order to take something for nothing, when the website has been set up according to the compact described above. No compact exists. You keep insisting it does, but provide no evidence of its existence. > [@](#): > > You are blocking the parts that generate revenue to take advantage of the parts that the revenue allowed for. So many of you seem bewildered by my point of view, but trust me, I am equally with yours. I don’t understand how you could think that this is an alright thing to do. Again, their faulty business model is their problem. ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/162 "2013-06-13T04:18:20Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > No compact exists. Society has not created it. Social compacts are created and codified by society. > > No compact is implicit in consumption of content. > > Malware is a very real threat, not a “slight inconvenience”. > > There is no compact. > > No compact exists. You keep insisting it does, but provide no evidence of its existence. > > Again, their faulty business model is their problem. The compact does exist between millions of people and it is the essence of the website. It is just as real as the compact that exists among millions of bus riders. You are not the judge of whether society has created a compact or not. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/163 "2013-06-13T04:32:01Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > The compact does exist between millions of people Prove it > [@](#): > > You are not the judge of whether society has created a compact or not. And you are? What qualifications do you have that I lack? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/164 "2013-06-13T05:03:53Z")
This is funny, because I’ve felt for a long time that online ads broke the compact first. When ads started blaring sound unexpectedly, I felt like they broke the compact. When ads started covering the actual content and, by poor design or mishap, were impossible to move rendering the content inaccessible, I felt like they broke the compact. When malware started creeping in through the ads - and don’t be a damn fool and pretend that’s not a problem even on legitimate sites - I felt like they broke the compact. When articles started to be broken down into dozens of paragraph-long pages so they could collect more page views without providing more content, I felt like they broke the compact. When the poor coding of ads crashed my browser, I felt like they broke the compact. When they disguised ads as content to trick people into clicking them, I felt like they broke the compact. In a myriad of obnoxious, selfish, greedy, and aggressive ways, they broke the compact. Don’t lecture me for refusing to be taken advantage of any longer. Your beef is with the people who made the ads abuse their audience until they drove them away. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/165 "2013-06-13T10:51:49Z")
Exactly so^^^ > [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > You don’t have to pay. You just have to not interfere with the website’s presentation so that the ads appear on your screen, as the people who made the website intend for it to be and as they expect The ads authors **expect and intend** that ads flash, move, jitter, and play sound. I don’t want any of that on a web page. Also not wanted, popups with tricksy close buttons. Or popunders of any sort. ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/166 "2013-06-13T13:19:42Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Exactly so^^^ > > The ads authors **expect and intend** that ads flash, move, jitter, and play sound. > > I don’t want any of that on a web page. > > Also not wanted, popups with tricksy close buttons. > Or popunders of any sort. Then don’t use their website! ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/167 "2013-06-13T13:25:23Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Prove it > > And you are? What qualifications do you have that I lack? I like my analogy of it being similar to riding a bus, so I’ll bring that up again. It’s impossible to prove that this compact among bus riders exists, because it consists of brain waves and thousands of tiny interactions. Yet, it very obviously exist, as anyone who has exchanged pleasant courtesies with other bus riders can attest. And, as I said above, it is implicit in using the bus. Even if you’re from rural Nebraska and you’ve never used a bus before, you’re bound by the compact to use courtesy on the bus. You are enjoying the benefits of the bus, so you must make little sacrifices - giving up your seat to a pregnant woman, turning down the music on your Ipod, not talking loud on your cell phone - to keep the experience you are benefiting from bearable for everyone else. It’s the same when you make use of a website dependent on ad revenue. Because you are benefiting from it, you have a duty both to its creators and its other users to allow the ads to appear on your screen so that the website can continue benefiting everyone. It’s a social obligation. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/168 "2013-06-13T14:18:53Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > I like my analogy of it being similar to riding a bus, so I’ll bring that up again. It’s impossible to prove that this compact among bus riders exists, because it consists of brain waves and thousands of tiny interactions. Yet, it very obviously exist, as anyone who has exchanged pleasant courtesies with other bus riders can attest. > > And, as I said above, it is implicit in using the bus. Even if you’re from rural Nebraska and you’ve never used a bus before, you’re bound by the compact to use courtesy on the bus. You are enjoying the benefits of the bus, so you must make little sacrifices - giving up your seat to a pregnant woman, turning down the music on your Ipod, not talking loud on your cell phone - to keep the experience you are benefiting from bearable for everyone else. Exactly the point. That courtesy includes not shouting at the other passengers, or flashing lights in their eyes. Or crashing the bus. Or taking up several seats at once, or moving from seat to seat. If I did those things on a bus, I’d be blocked from using the bus. ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/169 "2013-06-13T14:32:30Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Exactly the point. > That courtesy includes not shouting at the other passengers, or flashing lights in their eyes. > Or crashing the bus. Or taking up several seats at once, or moving from seat to seat. > If I did those things on a bus, I’d be blocked from using the bus. Would you mind giving me a rundown of what websites you use, where the ads are so horribly obnoxious? Or have you been using adblock so long that you’re out of touch with what they’re like? Here’s a list of the websites I use on the daily basis that have ads: New York Times Onion Onion AV Club Straight Dope Facebook Google Youtube Couple other newspaper websites None of these websites have ads that start screaming at me out of the blue or use flashing lights. They are all mute on default and you have to hit the sound button for the sound to come on. Youtube, obviously, has ads with sounds, but they’re before videos with sound anyway so they aren’t unexpected. The Onion and the Onion AV Club usually have an ad that takes over the entire screen soon after the page loads, which, I admit, is jarring. But I put up with it because I know it’s the small price I pay for enjoying their content day after day for several years. The only websites I’ve encountered where ads are really obnoxious are those on the seedier side of the internet - some weather websites, image hosting websites, free dictionaries, song lyrics, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/170 "2013-06-13T15:32:20Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > You don’t have to pay. You just have to not interfere with the website’s presentation so that the ads appear on your screen, as the people who made the website intend for it to be and as they expect - or, in other words, consider reasonable, courteous, reciprocal, etc. - for you to do. If that were true, then those sites would completely prohibit me from viewing their content if I had adblock on. Blip is perfectly capable of setting the timer on their “Please turn off adblock” splash screen from 90 seconds up to 999999999999999999999 seconds. The fact that they don’t do this proves that they realize forcing people to watch ads in exchange for content isn’t viable. ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/171 "2013-06-13T15:37:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If that were true, then those sites would completely prohibit me from viewing their content if I had adblock on. Blip is perfectly capable of setting the timer on their “Please turn off adblock” splash screen from 90 seconds up to 999999999999999999999 seconds. The fact that they don’t do this proves that they realize forcing people to watch ads in exchange for content isn’t viable. Viability isn’t related to morality. Yes, the website’s operators probably realize that banning adblock users from their content isn’t viable. They’re worried that the users would then gravitate toward other websites and be lost forever. _That doesn’t mean that they don’t expect viewers to use adblock, and think the people using adblock aren’t doing something wrong._ My statement - that web content creators “expect - or, in other words, consider reasonable, courteous, reciprocal, etc.” for viewers to look at ads, is incontrovertibly true, and this is coming from someone within the industry. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/172 "2013-06-13T15:42:21Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > My statement - that web content creators “expect - or, in other words, consider reasonable, courteous, reciprocal, etc.” for viewers to look at ads, is incontrovertibly true, and this is coming from someone within the industry. Go back and read **Eliahna** ’s post above (#164), and then ask why any of us should CARE what web content creators expect us to do. They broke their own business model all by themselves, and now they are whining about it. Tough. Maybe if they hadn’t let advertisers shit all over their readership for so long, people wouldn’t have turned to adblockers. ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/173 "2013-06-13T15:55:52Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Go back and read **Eliahna** ’s post above (#164), and then ask why any of us should CARE what web content creators expect us to do. They broke their own business model all by themselves, and now they are whining about it. Tough. Maybe if they hadn’t let advertisers shit all over their readership for so long, people wouldn’t have turned to adblockers. Go back and read my dozens of posts in this thread about the compact that exists between content creators and their readers and how by making use of the website this compact is implicit. You should care because by breaking this compact you are showing a lack of character in the same way you are when you eat a messy sandwich or have a loud cellphone conversation on the bus. You are breaking an exchange of courtesy that exists for the benefit of our community, freeing yourself of the burden while increasing it for everyone else. “Shit all over their readership.” Give me a break. Like I said in my post above, ads on decent websites aren’t that burdensome. The best way to avoid obnoxious ads is to browse the internet in an intelligent way. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/174 "2013-06-13T18:32:57Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > The best way to avoid obnoxious ads is to browse the internet in an intelligent way. Like with ad blocking software running. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/175 "2013-06-13T22:04:53Z")
Whether it is “immoral” probably won’t matter much. The issue is how **quality** content is going to be paid for. Yes, Joe Dweeb can throw together a web page in his basement just for the fun of it, but why should an organization bother putting together a web page containing reliable, researched information if they aren’t going to derive financial benefit from doing so? The people creating the page probably like to eat. If adblocking becomes popular with the majority of users, **something** will happen whether you approve of it or not. Either robust paywalls will be developed (i.e. not circumventable just by playing with cookies), methods will be developed to block adblockers (not very common yet, but as has been mentioned it is being tried), or lots of companies will go out of business or find other means of providing **paid** information content. Companies are not going to give you information out of the goodness of their hearts. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/176 "2013-06-13T22:19:39Z")
Dude, if I was FLASHING PEOPLE on the bus, I’d be blocked from the bus. Look at this page: > **[2 confirmed dead in Black Forest fire; 379 homes destroyed](https://www.denverpost.com/2013/06/13/2-confirmed-dead-in-black-forest-fire-379-homes-destroyed/)** > > 2 confirmed dead in Black Forest fire; 379 homes destroyed Things move around, change color, pop out at you. And then look at this page: > **[Two dead as firefighters battle Colorado blaze | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/us/colorado-fires)** > > Firefighters made little headway against a raging wildfire near Colorado Springs which has scorched 16,000 acres, destroyed 360 homes and claimed two lives. Calm, polite, well behaved Perhaps you’re right and I should just avoid the Denver Post. And then perhaps everybody else will do the same thing. At that point, their ad-based model dies without any adblocking at all. OTOH, maybe an blocked ad leaves a text note that catches my eye as I read the page. At any rate, this implied compact you keep talking about is imaginary. People post content, people view content. People filter content in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/177 "2013-06-14T00:12:09Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > Go back and read my dozens of posts in this thread about the compact that exists between content creators and their readers and how by making use of the website this compact is implicit. You should care because by breaking this compact you are showing a lack of character. I am willing (and DO) pay for online content. How is that showing a lack of character? > [@](#): > > “Shit all over their readership.” Give me a break. Like I said in my post above, ads on decent websites aren’t that burdensome. The best way to avoid obnoxious ads is to browse the internet in an intelligent way. It was an ad on a reputable website which infected my work PC with malware. Never again. Reputable content producers don’t damage their visitors’ machines. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/178 "2013-06-14T00:14:01Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Whether it is “immoral” probably won’t matter much. The issue is how **quality** content is going to be paid for. With money, as it always has been. I suspect content producers will set up a subscription service or “pay-per-view” setup, which will allow users to access that quality content for a reasonable fee. It’s hardly an insoluble problem. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/179 "2013-06-14T02:20:26Z")
> [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](#): > > I like my analogy of it being similar to riding a bus, so I’ll bring that up again. It’s impossible to prove that this compact among bus riders exists, because it consists of brain waves and thousands of tiny interactions. Yet, it very obviously exist, as anyone who has exchanged pleasant courtesies with other bus riders can attest. > > And, as I said above, it is implicit in using the bus. Even if you’re from rural Nebraska and you’ve never used a bus before, you’re bound by the compact to use courtesy on the bus. You are enjoying the benefits of the bus, so you must make little sacrifices - giving up your seat to a pregnant woman, turning down the music on your Ipod, not talking loud on your cell phone - to keep the experience you are benefiting from bearable for everyone else. > > It’s the same when you make use of a website dependent on ad revenue. Because you are benefiting from it, you have a duty both to its creators and its other users to allow the ads to appear on your screen so that the website can continue benefiting everyone. It’s a social obligation. To sum up, you can’t prove the compact you keep talking about and whose terms you claim to know, exists at all. ---
**Author:** ![Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecb155/32.png) [@Isaacedwardleibowitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaacedwardleibowitz)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234/180 "2013-06-14T03:49:56Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > With money, as it always has been. I suspect content producers will set up a subscription service or “pay-per-view” setup, which will allow users to access that quality content for a reasonable fee. It’s hardly an insoluble problem. This is true, and nearly all newspapers have done this in the past year. The newspaper I work at just implemented a partial paywall. Still doesn’t mean it’s right to block ads, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-immoral-to-block-advertisements/660234.md?page=10)