# IS IT IMPEACHMAS YET?Surveillance reserved for overseas?This bug's for you... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2005, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882 "2005-12-16T07:24:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/361 "2006-01-06T02:00:06Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > wow-this is weird, apparently nbc has “cleaned up” the transcript of the mitchell interview seeming to highlight amanpour as an eavesdroppee. I _really_ like to believe that that was a dirty trick intended to scare off Ms. Amanpour’s sources. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/362 "2006-01-07T05:45:39Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I _really_ like to believe that that was a dirty trick intended to scare off Ms. Amanpour’s sources. that would be a nice bit of disinformation–kind of like when you pick up a gang member, then let him go in half an hour and spread word that he snitched. It would sure fuck up a journalist if her name went out as “hot”, whether it were true or not. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/363 "2006-01-07T05:48:02Z")
otoh, it would be naive to think that among the admitted 500 individuals (changing over time, I guess) none were journalists whose “contacts” with al-q types were not for purposes of carrying out terrorism, but to inform the public (ostensibly a laudable goal…) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/364 "2006-01-07T05:52:22Z")
late breaking “denial” from nsa [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007382.php](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007382.php) Says Ensor: “A senior U.S. intelligence official told CNN on Thursday that the National Security Agency did not target CNN’s chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour or any other CNN journalist for surveillance.” What we may have here though is an issue of terminology." ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/365 "2006-01-07T06:53:16Z")
So much for half the Bush rationale; now on to the commander in chief bullshit. The report was particularly critical of a central administration justification for the program, that Congress had effectively approved such eavesdropping soon after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks by authorizing “all necessary and appropriate force” against the terrorist groups responsible. Congress “does not appear to have authorized or acquiesced in such surveillance,” the report said, adding that the administration reading of some provisions of federal wiretap law could render them "meaningless. > **[Basis for Spying in U.S. Is Doubted (Published 2006)](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/politics/basis-for-spying-in-us-is-doubted.html)** > > President Bush's rationale for eavesdropping on Americans without warrants rests on questionable legal ground, and Congress does not appear to have given him the authority to order the surveillance, said a Congressional analysis released Friday. ... ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/366 "2006-01-07T07:45:14Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > “A senior U.S. intelligence official told CNN on Thursday that the National Security Agency did not target CNN’s chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour or any other CNN journalist for surveillance.” “Nope. Not listening to her. Not at all. Nosiree. Go ahead and call her. Call her all you want. Talk for a lo-o-o-ong time. Yep. Totally safe…” ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/367 "2006-01-08T04:00:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > “Nope. Not listening to her. Not at all. Nosiree. Go ahead and call her. Call her all you want. Talk for a lo-o-o-ong time. Yep. Totally safe…” You are too cynical–they AREN’T listening to her–its Rubin they want…They figure he’s getting calls from fat Bill who’s passing along leaks from Bush 41 who is pissed out of his mind at the mess boy George has made… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/368 "2006-01-08T14:37:41Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > So much for half the Bush rationale; now on to the commander in chief bullshit. > > The report was particularly critical of a central administration justification for the program, that Congress had effectively approved such eavesdropping soon after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks by authorizing “all necessary and appropriate force” against the terrorist groups responsible. Congress “does not appear to have authorized or acquiesced in such surveillance,” the report said, adding that the administration reading of some provisions of federal wiretap law could render them "meaningless. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/politics/07nsa.html?hp&ex=1136696400&en=147d251d212f7f11&ei=5094&partner=homepage](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/politics/07nsa.html?hp&ex=1136696400&en=147d251d212f7f11&ei=5094&partner=homepage) I missed the second part of your cite: the one where the Congressional Research service was named by a new Constitutional amendment as the branch of government responsible for interpreting the law. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/369 "2006-01-08T14:46:52Z")
It came right after yours, designating that function to the Executive branch. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/370 "2006-01-08T18:25:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I missed the second part of your cite: the one where the Congressional Research service was named by a new Constitutional amendment as the branch of government responsible for interpreting the law. I think that for public relations purposes,( which as you point out is the limit of the authority of the congressional service), the admin lawyers may consider their wrists to have been slapped. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/371 "2006-01-08T22:31:00Z")
Virginians for Impeachment?? Has it come to this? I went to northern Virginia Rep. Jim Moran’s Town Hall with Rep. John Murtha last night. It was a huge crowd–the overflow room overflowed, and they had to turn hundreds of people away!–and the crowd gave Rep. Murtha a very warm welcome. The most interesting thing that happened all night, however, was the spontaneous, loud, sustained applause that erupted from the crowd when one questioner said the word “impeachment” > **[Impeachment Rocks the House](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/impeachment-rocks-the-hou_1_b_13366)** > > This demand for accountability is deeply felt, going to the heart of what progressives care about--the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, being a "good neighbor" as well as a strong one. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/372 "2006-01-24T03:47:11Z")
> **[DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE: THE ISSUES; Administration Starts Weeklong Blitz in...](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/24/us/domestic-surveillance-the-issues-administration-starts-weeklong-blitz-in.html)** > > The White House opened a weeklong media blitz Monday in defense of the National Security Agency's eavesdropping program, with President Bush saying he found it ''amazing'' to be accused of breaking the law by ordering a secret program to intercept... these assholes can’t get their story straight…but they’ve got some fancy footwork for sure. Leahy today on Lehrer:“they say they only tap people in contact with Al Q. And they tap five thousand. So what, there’s 5000 al q conspirators running around and they can only capture 8?” paraphrase–i’ll retrieve transcript later. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/373 "2006-01-24T15:26:40Z")
[We may not even have to wait for the next Congress.](http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/impeachment.htm) > [@](#): > > Administration sources said the charges are expected to include false reports to Congress as well as Mr. Bush’s authorization of the National Security Agency to engage in electronic surveillance inside the United States without a court warrant. This included the monitoring of overseas telephone calls and e-mail traffic to and from people living in the United States without requisite permission from a secret court. > … > > Sen. Arlen Specter, Senate Judiciary Committee chairman and Pennsylvania Republican, has acknowledged that the hearings could conclude with a vote of whether Mr. Bush violated the law. Mr. Specter, a critic of the administration’s surveillance program, stressed that, although he would not seek it, impeachment is a possible outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/374 "2006-01-24T15:31:35Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/24/politics/24nsa.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/24/politics/24nsa.html) > these assholes can’t get their story straight…but they’ve got some fancy footwork for sure. > > Leahy today on Lehrer:“they say they only tap people in contact with Al Q. And they tap five thousand. So what, there’s 5000 al q conspirators running around and they can only capture 8?” > > paraphrase–i’ll retrieve transcript later. Don’t bother. Go to [this site](http://zapatopi.net/afdb/) and avail yourself of their product instead. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/375 "2006-01-24T19:12:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Don’t bother. > > Go to [this site](http://zapatopi.net/afdb/) and avail yourself of their product instead. you are sadly misinformed. The most recent research at MIT reveals the fopil beanie (and may I say, irrespective of the shiny side in or shiny side out) actually CONCENTRATES the harmful rays.[http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200511112730.afdb\_effectiveness](http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200511112730.afdb_effectiveness) I conclude, therefor, from you recommendation, that you are in league with the government in their attempts to carry out electromagnetic mind control… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/376 "2006-01-24T19:20:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [We may not even have to wait for the next Congress.](http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/impeachment.htm) although I suffer from pathological optimism due to an excessive number of serotonin receptors in my cerebrum, it is hard for me to imagine that corrupt and venal as they are, the pugs would be unable to muster 34 senators to vote against conviction. altho impeachment alone would be a sautary bitch slap for that cracker who wakes up and takes his morning piss on a copy of the constitution. (or so I’m told) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/377 "2006-01-25T00:26:01Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Don’t bother. > > Go to [this site](http://zapatopi.net/afdb/) and avail yourself of their product instead. I take it that on the substantive issue, neuropsychosartorial recommendations aside, you have no problems with the posture of the admin which, as close as I can tell, is “we didn’t follow the law, because it wasn’t operationally convenient, but we didn’t break the law, and if we did it’s ok, because as soon as we break a law it becomes an unconstitutional law that we would be violating our oath of office if we didn’t break” ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/378 "2006-01-25T02:30:05Z")
LEAHY: How do we know? We don’t know who – If as was suggested in Mr. Chertoff’s statement that thousands of Americans have been spied on, do we really have thousands of al-Qaida operatives in this country and are we so incompetent in our law enforcement that there are thousands of them? We couldn’t catch, oh, maybe nine or ten or twelve or thirteen.[http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/leahy\_1-23.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/leahy_1-23.html) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882/379 "2006-01-25T07:47:25Z")
" it is hard for me to imagine that corrupt and venal as they are, the pugs would be unable to muster 34 senators to vote against conviction." let me modify that. with bullshit moves like this, praise jesus, Bush may snatch conviction from the jaws of the fix, withal White House Declines to Provide Storm Papers > **[White House Declines to Provide Storm Papers (Published 2006)](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/25/politics/white-house-declines-to-provide-storm-papers.html)** > > The Bush administration, citing the confidentiality of executive branch communications, said Tuesday that it did not plan to turn over certain documents about Hurricane Katrina or make senior White House officials available for sworn testimony before... while the katrina stonewall no doubt deserves (and will get) its own thread, there is such a concatenation of catastrophic failures coupled with desperate concotion of bizarre excuses for the erection of barriers to accountability, that even the sold out Senate might have to convict, once the articles are coherently before them. The dodge and weave of these guys is awesome… How do they have the chutzpah, after swearing to do “whatever it takes” to clam up about the drama? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-impeachmas-yet-surveillance-reserved-for-overseas-this-bugs-for-you/335882.md?page=18)