# Is it inappropriate to encourage a person who has never used a handgun to learn how? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317 "2008-08-26T16:08:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/141 "2008-08-27T21:09:27Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I’m a lot like her. I did not object to our guns (in the manner my husband uses them) and I gave it a whirl. It’s not my bag. Really quite simple. My feelings about guns in general are stronger now than they were 20 years ago, but the situation as is is tolerable to me. [/QUOTE] Well, she’s learning how to shoot, so you’re not that much like her. Please I seriously don’t you have her mad dog-whispering skills. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/142 "2008-08-27T21:20:21Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Well, she’s learning how to shoot, so you’re not that much like her. Please I seriously don’t you have her mad dog-whispering skills. [/QUOTE] Yeah, not much of a thrill for me. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/143 "2008-08-27T21:59:11Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] There. I just said it, above. (I even mentioned it, in passing, in one of my posts directed at **Kalhoun** , above.) Is it all that surprising? [/QUOTE] Not surprising, no, but I wasn’t really expecting any particular answer, and so wasn’t in a position to be surprised. I know it’s GD, so I’m supposed to have been making some sort of point, but in this case, I was just curious about the thinking behind the position, specifically whether or not those who were arguing that it was irresponsible not to learn gun safety felt that the irresponsibility was large enough to obligate one to forgo gun ownership (or, as **Bobotheoptimist** reminds us, continuance of the relationship) in the face of an obdurate partner. My opinion is that with reasonable precautions, it can be safe to own a gun even in a household where one or more adults are not trained in gun safety, and that ensuring that those reasonable precautions are taken is the responsibility of the person who brought the gun into the house. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/144 "2008-08-27T22:21:09Z")
[QUOTE=Kyrie Eleison] Not surprising, no, but I wasn’t really expecting any particular answer, and so wasn’t in a position to be surprised. I know it’s GD, so I’m supposed to have been making some sort of point, but in this case, I was just curious about the thinking behind the position, **specifically whether or not those who were arguing that it was irresponsible not to learn gun safety felt that the irresponsibility was large enough to obligate one to forgo gun ownership (or, as Bobotheoptimist reminds us, continuance of the relationship) in the face of an obdurate partner.** My opinion is that with reasonable precautions, it can be safe to own a gun even in a household where one or more adults are not trained in gun safety, and that ensuring that those reasonable precautions are taken is the responsibility of the person who brought the gun into the house. [/QUOTE] Interesting question. I’d like to hear the responses to that. I think break-up will outweigh selling the guns. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/145 "2008-08-27T23:52:45Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] Why this attitude that it’s someone else’s responsibility to learn how to handle a gun, rather than the gun owner’s responsibility to keep track of their weapon? [/QUOTE] Because its in your house. Voluntarily remaining ignorant of anything in your house that is dangerous in any way is, imo, idiotic. You’re not absolved of responsibility just because its not yours. If you don’t want that responsibility, then the gun needs a new home. But if you’re ok with the gun being in your home, you have to be willing to learn the basics. If there were rat poison in the house, wouldn’t it be smart for everyone in the house to know how to safely handle it, just in case? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/146 "2008-08-28T00:06:37Z")
[QUOTE=CutterJohn] Because its in your house. Voluntarily remaining ignorant of anything in your house that is dangerous in any way is, imo, idiotic. You’re not absolved of responsibility just because its not yours. If you don’t want that responsibility, then the gun needs a new home. But if you’re ok with the gun being in your home, you have to be willing to learn the basics. If there were rat poison in the house, wouldn’t it be smart for everyone in the house to know how to safely handle it, just in case? [/QUOTE] Yes. But knowing not to touch it is all the handling anybody needs to know. If you are concerned about protecting little children or stupid adults from guns that other stupid adults left lying around, all you have to know is not to point the barrel at anyone and not to touch it anywhere near the trigger or any other moveable parts, so that you can move it to somewhere secure. And everybody who has watched television knows all this _without_ training. The notion that everybody needs to know how to manipulate a gun for the sake of manipulating it is baseless. It’s got nothing to do with safety. (Oh, and the “Yes” was not to “But if you’re ok with the gun being in your home, you have to be willing to learn the basics.” That’s simply incorrect.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/147 "2008-08-28T00:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=CutterJohn] Because its in your house. Voluntarily remaining ignorant of anything in your house that is dangerous in any way is, imo, idiotic. You’re not absolved of responsibility just because its not yours. If you don’t want that responsibility, then the gun needs a new home. But if you’re ok with the gun being in your home, you have to be willing to learn the basics. If there were rat poison in the house, wouldn’t it be smart for everyone in the house to know how to safely handle it, just in case? [/QUOTE] Why? We’ve already established that your home can remain safe(r) without learning how to operate the gun. What is the obsession with learning how to operate it as opposed to keeping it out of or removing it from potential trouble areas? If the owner/enthusiast takes it out of the safe, it is in his control unless HE’S careless. If he IS careless, picking up the gun and putting it back in the safe, putting it out in the car or somewhere else out of the reach of others is all that needs to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/148 "2008-08-28T00:09:14Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] Way to duck the question. They’ll be \*less \* amused should someone be accidentally shot. Now is that my fault for not knowing how to handle a gun, or is it the fault of the moron who left it out? Is it so unreasonable to expect gun owners to take responsibility for their guns? [/QUOTE] No, it’s not unreasonable at all. It’s not unreasonable for everybody to be responsible for everything that they do, either. Yet people make mistakes, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I’m not ducking the question, as it were, by saying that things become crises in unpredictable ways, and whether you’re responsible for it or not it is never a bad thing to be able to deal with it yourself rather than depending upon others to do it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/149 "2008-08-28T03:27:27Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Why? We’ve already established that your home can remain safe(r) without learning how to operate the gun. [/QUOTE] You’ve established that you wish to believe this. But believe it or not, not everyone situation is identical to yours. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/150 "2008-08-28T07:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Why? We’ve already established that your home can remain safe(r) without learning how to operate the gun. What is the obsession with learning how to operate it as opposed to keeping it out of or removing it from potential trouble areas? If the owner/enthusiast takes it out of the safe, it is in his control unless HE’S careless. If he IS careless, picking up the gun and putting it back in the safe, putting it out in the car or somewhere else out of the reach of others is all that needs to be done. [/QUOTE] Right. And in order to move it to a safe place, this gun is going to have to be picked up and verified empty, and if not, emptied(followed by a severe beat down for whoever left a loaded, untended gun loose in the house). Thats it. Theres no need to learn how to shoot, strip, clean, or anything else. Just how to safely pick it up, check to see if it is loaded, and how to unload it. Thats 15 minutes, tops. Unless you are implying its perfectly fine for someone completely ignorant about guns to touch it at all? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/151 "2008-08-28T09:58:46Z")
[QUOTE=CutterJohn] Right. And in order to move it to a safe place, this gun is going to have to be picked up and verified empty, and if not, emptied(followed by a severe beat down for whoever left a loaded, untended gun loose in the house). Thats it. Theres no need to learn how to shoot, strip, clean, or anything else. Just how to safely pick it up, check to see if it is loaded, and how to unload it. Thats 15 minutes, tops. Unless you are implying its perfectly fine for someone completely ignorant about guns to touch it at all? [/QUOTE] That’s just wrong. I don’t have to verify it empty. I always assume a gun is loaded. That’s step One of gun safety! I don’t need to verify anything. I move the gun out of the vicinity and I’m done. Yes, I’d advise people who don’t know how to pick up a gun safely to just leave it alone. You don’t need to know anything other than the fact it’s a GUN to do that. In fact, you always have the option of NOT touching it at all. You can lock the door to separate it from children. You can call the police and tell them you’ve found a runaway gun in your home and would they please come over and help you secure it. You can tell the moronic gun owner to put his gun in the safe or wherever. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/152 "2008-08-28T11:56:01Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] Like I said, it’s good that you respect each other’s space. But from my angle, the razor belongs to both of you. You both would have legal standing to sue me (or press charges) if I stole it. [/quote] My legal standing comes from power of attorney rights, not posession. My _liability_ is not the same as my right to sue. > [@](#): > > “Archaic”? Community of property laws are initially predicated on the notion that people lose their individual identities in a marriage. I call that archaic. > [@](#): > > In a marriage, I assume the partners to be equal. They agree to share their lives together. They share in all the major (and some minor) decisions. If they can’t agree on something (like guns in the house), then it don’t happen. You’re not married, are you? > [@](#): > > For what? Unlawfull arrest? Yes > [@](#): > > You don’t think **Kalhoun** would be arrested/detained, and tested for gun powder residue? Based on her statements that the gun wasn’t hers? :dubious: I’ve been at the scene of more than one shooting, with conflicting eyewitness reports at that. Care to guess how many times I’ve had a residue check? Real life is not CSI. > [@](#): > > I am not a lawyer. I guess it shows. Even if you were a lawyer, you’re not one in my country. > [@](#): > > However, even if the title to the house is solely in her name, others would hold you legally responsible for some of what goes on inside. Like the electric and phone bills. Nope. > [@](#): > > Like taxes. Nope > [@](#): > > Like the presence of dangerous or illegal items inside. Depends. In my country, the licence owner has the legal liability for their weapons. Period. This leaves aside the issue of unlicenced weapons, which is a crime where blame could spread around, and would be a hesaid/shesaid issue, as I acknowledged. > [@](#): > > Also, during divorce hearings, you might successfully argue that you deserve some of the equity there. Nope. Like most people of my generation and younger, I’m married with a pre-nuptual contract. A very thourough one. > [@](#): > > Her being sole owner is a powerful legal argument, but not a bullet proof one. It is here > [@](#): > > When did this happen? I hear stories all the time of spouses being held responsible for financial problems caused by the spouse. Maybe in community of property areas… > [@](#): > > It’s possible you have (especially if you are an attorney) somehow drew up documents and trusts that seperate the two of you financially, but I assure you, sir, that that is not the norm, nor the default when those documents do not exist. A prenup is pretty standard here. > [@](#): > > The law varies from place to place, but all those intending to legally discharge the weapon may/will need to be licenced. Once again, nope. I don’t need a licence to shoot a friend’s weapon at a range, just to own one. > [@](#): > > Scenario: A child was hit by a bullet coming from your home, and your wife was the only person present. You are the only licenced user, but you are on a buisness trip. > > Are you held responsible for the gun being out, and discharged unsafely? Yes. It is the owner’s responsibility to ensure their weapon is safe. This doesn’t mean, in your convoluted hypothetical, that the wife won’t also be charged. But the owner would definitely be charged. > [@](#): > > You live together, you are adults, you are equal, you have equal say in what goes on. You should not engage in activities your partner/spouse/soul mate does not approve. Again, you’re not married, are you? That’s incredibly naive. > [@](#): > > While compromises are expected (and more often necessary), and when it comes to major things (like guns, especially in **Kalhoun** ’s case, considering her feelings towards them), a consensus must be reached. Sure, but that consensus could very well be “Sure, get a gun, as long as I never have to deal with the thing”. > [@](#): > > So your spouse is free to do what they like, in all ways? Drug use? Annoying pets? Did you read my post about the dog crap? > [@](#): > > Ignoring your spouses feelings is childish, and antiquated to boot. There’s ignoring your spouse’s feelings, and then there’s subsuming your individual identity in some amorphous entity. Fortunately, “excluded middle” is a logical fallacy. My wife and I are both adults, and can have our own stuff. The law agrees with me. > [@](#): > > I assume that, in your case, you married someone you have come to believe that will not do anything that you would disapprove of. Nope, just someone who generally thinks like I do about big issue stugf like guns and the like. > [@](#): > > So in effect, yes, you have a “veto” power, but you have never had to use it. Of course I have a “veto” power, I can always leave. I wouldn’t over something like guns, because, like I said, I quite like guns. > [@](#): > > You both reside there. And assuming you both have access to all the same rooms, you are held equally responsible for what goes on there. Not the gun. That’s the licence holder’s responsibility primarily. By law. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/153 "2008-08-28T12:05:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] You’ve established that you wish to believe this. But believe it or not, not everyone situation is identical to yours. [/QUOTE] Certainly they’re the same. Touching the gun is certainly more risky than not touching it. Minimal interaction means less opportunity for mistakes. You may want the rest of the world to be as enthusiastic about guns as you, but not everyone wants the responsibility of intimate interaction with a weapon. I know I don’t. And if there’s a way to lessen the chance of making a mistake in a risky situation, I’m gonna go for it. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/154 "2008-08-28T14:20:09Z")
**Kalhoun** : Well, I spent three hours last night, looking for gun safety studies on the web. I couldn’t find much, and I blame my weak Google-fu. I caught a wiff (other web page referencing another) of studies done by the National Saftey Council, but there is nothing available on their website that I could uncover. I found references to stuff done by the U.S. Department of Justice, but they don’t have any studies available on their website, other than studies that discuss that showed that most of child/gun accidents were the result of poor gun access control, which is not at issue here. However, on the DoJ website, I _did_ find a policy “wish list” statement, that appears to have been written around 2001, and it reads: > [@](#): > > **VI. Preventing Gun Accidents and Suicides** > > \ > > Guns are inherently dangerous consumer products, and we must treat them as such at every step in the distribution chain, from manufacturer to dealer to consumer. Gun owners, the firearms industry, parents, schools, the public health community and community leaders all must shoulder responsibility for making firearms safety a top priority. > **[Department of Justice | Homepage | United States Department of Justice](https://www.justice.gov/)** > > Official website of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ). DOJ’s mission is to enforce the law and defend the interests of the United States according to the law; to ensure public safety against threats foreign and domestic; to provide federal... So, my ideas aren’t new, nor are they solely the domain of a feverish mind. Take it for what it’s worth. 😉 **MrDibble** : I think your mistaken about me being a throwback to the 50’s, in regards to marriage. I do not wish to risk derailing this thread, however. * * * Since I am unable to support my assertions about gun safety (studies), I feel I will have to yield the floor. Take it easy, everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/155 "2008-08-28T14:38:50Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Certainly they’re the same. Touching the gun is certainly more risky than not touching it. Minimal interaction means less opportunity for mistakes. You may want the rest of the world to be as enthusiastic about guns as you, but not everyone wants the responsibility of intimate interaction with a weapon. I know I don’t. And if there’s a way to lessen the chance of making a mistake in a risky situation, I’m gonna go for it. [/QUOTE] Good lord… Ok, I give up. Every situation is exactly like yours and you are entirely right that ignoring things is the best way to make them go bye-bye. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/156 "2008-08-28T15:09:45Z")
Nowhere do they suggest disinterested people learn how to use a gun. Safety does NOT equal operation. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/157 "2008-08-28T15:30:14Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Good lord… Ok, I give up. Every situation is exactly like yours and you are entirely right that ignoring things is the best way to make them go bye-bye. [/QUOTE] Nobody’s ignoring anything, but thanks for playing! You have yet to prove your stand that operation is safer than non-operation with regard to guns. The household situation can be anything you want it to be, but the fact remains, not handling the gun, or handling it minimally in an emergency, is safer than taking a chance that a nervous, upset, scared, person who has no interest in guns is going to handle it properly. Your advice is right on for people who handle guns. It is dangerous for those who don’t. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/158 "2008-08-28T16:46:18Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Here in the UK we dislike a simple killing machine to the point of not allowing them in society. > We delegate the responsibility of self defense to the police (the vast majority of whom are not armed either). > Our society’s negative experience was that we had a school shooting (and we don’t want another one). [QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I don’t think you can speak for an entire culture like that. [/QUOTE] Well I felt BrandonR was being rather … ingenious … in his description of guns as a simple machine and his implication that guns are essential for self-defence and belong in society, so I thought I’d use his phraseology. But there is \*\*no pressure group \*\* I know of in the UK that wants to bring back the use of any guns for self-defence; there is \*\*no request by the police that they all be armed \*\* and **the legislation for banning handguns shot :eek: through** when there was the Dunblane School shooting. Do you foresee any change in UK gun policy? Or even any discussion of it? It’s a done deal. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/159 "2008-08-28T17:19:55Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Well I felt BrandonR was being rather … ingenious … in his description of guns as a simple machine and his implication that guns are essential for self-defence and belong in society, so I thought I’d use his phraseology. [/quote] Not all societies perhaps, but societies where the right to owning a gun is guaranteed in the country’s legal charters. Guns are machines. You provide an input, they provide an output. Sure, maybe their intention of forcefully stopping people is a bit devious, but a gun is as safe as a lollipop in the right, sane-minded hands. Personally, _I_ want to be in charge of protecting my own life and I’d never live in a society where you were forced to delegate the single most important responsibility to a third party. Seems to be working just fine for me now! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317/160 "2008-08-28T18:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=BrandonR] Not all societies perhaps, but societies where the right to owning a gun is guaranteed in the country’s legal charters. Guns are machines. You provide an input, they provide an output. Sure, maybe their intention of forcefully stopping people is a bit devious, but a gun is as safe as a lollipop in the right, sane-minded hands. [/QUOTE] The intention of a gun is to kill its target. It’s what we call a “weapon” - and to try and pussyfoot around that fact is about as “devious” as we need to get, I think. And, as safe as a lollypop? Congratulations, you have proven than your position is divorced from reality. Given the rather low bar you set of “sane-minded”, it’s quite clear that people, being human, can make mistakes. Of course, it’s very hard to accidentally kill somebody with a lollipop. Can you honestly say that about a gun? [QUOTE=BrandonR] Personally, _I_ want to be in charge of protecting my own life and I’d never live in a society where you were forced to delegate the single most important responsibility to a third party. Seems to be working just fine for me now! 😉 [/QUOTE] Nobody in the thread wants to take your guns away from you, unless you’re one of those sane-minded people who tends to create that “gun unattended on a table in a room with children” scenario that we’ve been talking about. This thread is about whether there’s any reason whatsoever for a person who, through their own personal choice (which is as valid as yours) will have a _maximum_ necessary interaction with guns consisting of moving them to another room, whether such a person needs to learn how to safely manipulate the weapon, even to the degree of unloading it. I remain unconvinced that the gun needs to be unloaded or otherwise mechanically manipulated in any way to safely move a short distance. This can be accomplished by only touching the grip and the barrel, with nothing even coming near the trigger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-inappropriate-to-encourage-a-person-who-has-never-used-a-handgun-to-learn-how/461317.md?page=9)