# Is it just me, or does Buddhism get a free pass from atheist debunking? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467 "2013-03-31T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/21 "2013-04-01T04:08:49Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Buddhists don’t typically proselytize or preach? No, they don’t. Unlike the folks where I grew up in Texas, they’re perfectly content to leave you be. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/22 "2013-04-01T05:25:47Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Bolding mine. > > Is this true? My understanding of things in Burma at the time is that most changes wrought were informed by [socialist ideals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_Way_to_Socialism) rather than Buddhist ones. For instance the leather industry was nationalised not banned. I think I’m getting it right, but it’s all based on research I did over twenty years ago, and I’m only reciting from memory. The way I learned it, the socialists (or military) came in and took over, at least in part to reverse the weirdness of the Buddhist fundamentalists. It doesn’t excuse the abuses of the last fifty years, but it might go a step toward explaining why they seized power. (Other than, y’know, wanting power…) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/23 "2013-04-01T05:43:29Z")
I think it’s largely regarded as more benign, but that may just be in the English-speaking world. In my experience, atheists tend to focus their anti-religion attention on the “my religion says you can’t” type of believer. I vaguely recall someone on the Dope saying that Buddhism has its share of hypocrites who selectively quote their religious texts to justify being assholes, but they’re far away from most English-speakers and/or on a different part of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/24 "2013-04-01T08:29:25Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > I vaguely recall someone on the Dope saying that Buddhism has its share of hypocrites who selectively quote their religious texts to justify being assholes, but they’re far away from most English-speakers and/or on a different part of the internet. [Muslims Vanish as Buddhist Attacks Approach Burma’s Biggest City](http://www.voanews.com/content/muslims-vanish-as-buddhist-attacks-approach-burma-biggest-city/1631625.html) > [@](#): > > The Muslims of Sit Kwin were always a small group who numbered no more than 100 of the village’s 2,000 people. But as sectarian violence led by Buddhist mobs spreads across central Burma, they and many other Muslims are disappearing. > > Their homes, shops and mosques destroyed, some end up in refugee camps or hide in the homes of friends or relatives. Dozens have been killed. > > \ > > Since 42 people were killed in violence that erupted in Meikhtila town on March 20, unrest led by hardline Buddhists has spread to at least 10 other towns and villages in central Burma, with the latest incidents only about a two-hour drive from the commercial capital, Rangoon. > > The crowds are fired up by anti-Muslim rhetoric spread over the Internet and by word of mouth from monks preaching a movement known as "969.‘’ The three numbers refer to various attributes of the Buddha, his teachings and the monkhood. But it has come to represent a radical form of anti-Islamic nationalism which urges Buddhists to boycott Muslim-run shops and services. I’d say that’s pretty assholish, yes. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/25 "2013-04-01T08:59:30Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Perhaps religious skeptics could take exception to it, but it’s so squishy that there’s not much to grab hold of. It is both squishy and not squishy. This is why one of the symbols for Buddhisms is a rotund seated figure. Seemingly solid with lots to grab hold of, but grease him up real good and he slips right through your fingers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/26 "2013-04-01T09:17:42Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > From what I have learned of Buddhism (full disclosure: I studied and practiced at the Nyingma Institute for a couple years in the 1980s), it isn’t theistic. But to call it atheistic would miss the mark too. The best term for it would be simply nontheistic. Buddhism says whether the gods exist or not, it doesn’t make any difference to you working on your own liberation (or, for bodhisattvas, helping other people with theirs). To Buddhists, the gods may or may not exist, but either way they’re irrelevant to what the point of Buddhism is all about. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/27 "2013-04-01T11:07:16Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > My understanding is that the Beats popularized Buddhism for the first time (if someone did before them, please let us know.) > I know Scientology was partially based on the Vedic scriptures. If it was ever hip or trendy, it was before I can remember. Maybe the mid to late 70s when Travolta joined? The Transcendentalists beat the Beats to Buddhism… ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/28 "2013-04-01T11:48:02Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > How about, a large portion of Buddhists are atheists in the US. > > Most people start the atheistic path by seeing inconsistencies and hypocrisies in religions. This leads to the eventual conclusion that they don’t believe in God. > Nowhere in this process does Buddhism come into the equation, so why go after it. > Also, Like others have said, Buddhist’s haven’t been as intrusive in the US as Christians have. > If leading Buddhists were starting wars, pushing racist and sexist agendas like Christians, Buddhists would be all over them. You don’t mention the other religion that is into violence, war and sexist agendas. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/29 "2013-04-01T12:01:35Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > You don’t mention the other religion that is into violence, war and sexist agendas. Why not? Probably because he doesn’t get door to door muslims, or see mosques with a big sign saying “sinners burn in HELL” on his way to work. At least where I live the christians are the pushy annoying ones. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/30 "2013-04-01T12:04:16Z")
Maybe because the Buddha told his followers to question everything they were taught, even by him? Or because there is no dogma in Buddhism? No God. Also Buddhists are mostly forbidden from converting others, with few exceptions. And it’s only ‘trendy’ in the west, everywhere else it’s been around for thousands of years. Also you can be a Buddhist and any other faith you wish, at the same time. Few religions are so accommodating! What’s left for a God fearing Atheist to attack? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/31 "2013-04-01T12:55:32Z")
I’m an atheist, my wife is buddhist. Her parents were very involved in Buddhism and never once tried to convert me. I’ve been to several buddhist events with my wife, and nobody there tried to tell me I was going to hell. Heck, I’m not sure they ever even asked me if I was religious in any way whatsoever. Leave me alone, and I’ll leave you alone. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/32 "2013-04-01T14:29:43Z")
I’m an atheist Buddhist and have been for a little over a decade. I don’t believe in literal karma or reincarnation or anything like that. I’m mostly Zen, I just try to be as aware and accepting as I can of the present moment. Evidence supports the use of Zen meditation to treat psychological disorders, create new brain cells and raise one’s baseline mood. I was attracted to Zen because, while it can be heavily steeped in ritual and confusing language, it’s actually a very secular, simple, non-dogmatic way of looking at reality. It wasn’t like the fundamentalist Christianity I clung to in my youth which placed so much emphasis on what you believe. Zen is way more interested in your experience of the present moment. Most of the attacks I see against Buddhism are those woo aspects like reincarnation which IMO are pretty silly, or the attackers really don’t understand what Buddhism is and attack it based on their erroneous assumptions about it. Either way, I don’t have the compelling need to convert people or change their minds. I’ve got enough on my plate minding my own spiritual life as it is. I think it’s weird that some people act like Western Buddhism isn’t real Buddhism. One of the foundational concepts of Buddhism is impermanence. Buddha himself said, ‘‘Work out your own salvation.’’ Buddhism has soaked up local and cultural religious beliefs for thousands of years, so it’s no surprise it would do so in the West as well. I don’t think people realize the diversity of Buddhism worldwide - Tibetan Buddhism, for example, is radically different than Zen Buddhism, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t both Buddhism. If there is any religion that would reject a purist attitude about the way it is practiced, it would be Buddhism. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/33 "2013-04-01T14:50:02Z")
Like olivesmarch4th, there are a lot of atheist Buddhists. [http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm](http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/34 "2013-04-01T14:59:03Z")
My brother in law is sort of becoming a Christian Buddhist. The two are not incompatible. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/35 "2013-04-01T15:14:01Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > My understanding is that the Beats popularized Buddhism for the first time (if someone did before them, please let us know.) That was my impression. Maybe the Transcendentalists got into Buddhism first, but I think the Beats are probably responsible for the way people in the U.S. view Buddhism now. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Now and then there are surges of popularity (yeah, especially in California) that are capitalized upon by exploitive “gurus” in a vaguely cult-like manner. Some guy is always selling a new set of videos on self-realization, etc. These guys are rarely practicing “real” Buddhism, but, rather, something home-grown and woo-ish, with only one thing a$ the $ole object. I can believe that. **Saraya** seems to have confused this for general Buddhist practice in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/36 "2013-04-01T15:28:26Z")
Paramahansa Yogananda brought his brand of spiritualism (partly Buddhist, but not entirely) to the US in the 1920s. There certainly were various “revivals” in the 50s and more so in the 60s, but I don’t know that it “peaked” in either of those decades. And there are different types of Buddhism, too, so it’s hard to talk about it as one would the RCC. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/37 "2013-04-01T16:37:57Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > …or damn people to hell. Encourages total personal responsibility and accountability for one’s thoughts, feelings and actions rather than blaming demons for misfortune or falsely attributing accomplishments to God. But at least some flavors of Buddhism do “damn” you to living with karmic retribution for ills supposedly committed in a past life. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/38 "2013-04-01T17:42:45Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Well said. Except for the fact that it is not true of Buddhism as a whole - many varieties of which very much have gods (as well as heavens and hells). Given the popularity of Mahayana Buddhism, in fact, it could be argued that most of the world’s actual practicingf Buddhists are “theists”. [http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/deities.htm](http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/deities.htm) The average believer in “Pure Land” Buddhism is functionally indistingusihable from the believer in any other Western religion: he or she worships in the hope of getting into heaven. > **[Pure Land Buddhism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism)** > > Pure Land Buddhism or the Pure Land School (Chinese: 淨土宗; pinyin: Jìngtǔzōng) is a broad branch of Mahayana Buddhism focused on achieving rebirth in a Pure Land. It is one of the most widely practiced traditions of Buddhism in East Asia. It is also known as "Nembutsu school" or the "Lotus School" (Liánzōng 蓮宗). East Asian Pure Land mainly relies on three main Mahayana scriptures: the Sutra of Amitayus, the Contemplation Sutra and the Amitabha Sutra. > The Pure Land tradition is primarily focused ... In the West, the more philosophic aspects of Theravada Buddhism are of course more popular. This should not obscure the reality, that in actual practice Buddhism isn’t really much different, for most of its adherents, to any other religion. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/39 "2013-04-01T21:18:10Z")
Buddhists, in general, are very nice and don’t try to convert you or talk about their religion. In fact, you pretty much have to seek out a Buddhist if you want to talk to one, as they will never go door to door asking you to convert nor will they go around putting up pictures of Buddha and complaining that people are insulting them. Other religions can learn a lot from them ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467/40 "2013-04-01T21:20:05Z")
Sure, and most christians couldn’t explain the Trinity without invoking a heresy. The historical Buddha specifically declines to speculate on cosmology. Warren, Buddhism in Translations, Ch 13 ‘Questions which tend not to edification’ (Majjhima-Nikaya, Sutta 63) ETA in response to Malthus [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-buddhism-get-a-free-pass-from-atheist-debunking/654467.md?page=3)