# Is it just me, or does Tom Clancy's recent work blow? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699 "2004-12-14T01:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/1 "2004-12-14T01:07:56Z")
I wasa huge fan of the original Jack Ryan novels and his other stuff, say… _Red Storm Rising_ to _Sum of All Fears_ (I WILL NEVER SEE THE MOVIE AS LONG AS I LIVE \_ I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE THEY PUT BEN WHOFLECK AS JACK RYAN!!). But it seems to me that most of his work after that blows some serious ass. This reaches its apex with _Teeth of the Tiger_. How many times can an author repeat the same one-line zingers in a book? I don’t know, but TC is trying for a record. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/2 "2004-12-14T01:18:10Z")
I don’t know who ghost-wrote that piece of tripe, but I suspect it was someone who wrote some of the lesser _Executioner_ and _Destroyer_ books. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/3 "2004-12-14T01:20:56Z")
Red Storm Rising was badly written, but at least a good story. Books like Cardinal of the Kremlin, and Clear and present Danger were, IMHO, a good read. I started to notice the collapse in Rainbow Six, and thought Red Rabbit and Bear & the Dragon were mediocre and repetitive at best. I totally agree with you on Teeth of the Tiger. The bitter old right wing rants, centering on how the damn liberals ruined everything by granting rights to people, are getting unbelievable tiresome. The next one will be from the library, not the store… ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/4 "2004-12-14T02:14:48Z")
You’re right about Rainbow Six, it did get repetitive pretty fast. And it was a little too preachy for my taste, especially the ending. I didn’t mind it so much when i was a conservative nutjob, but now that im a lefty nutjob, it pisses me off. Red Rabbit was written more in the “Old Style Clancy” aka maybe he actually wrote it. Bear and the Dragon is where the ghostwriter was apparently hired IMHO ---
**Author:** ![Fritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Fritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fritz)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/5 "2004-12-14T02:47:34Z")
Yup, it blows. I’ve been a big Clancy fan for long time, but the books have been going downhill since _Rainbow Six_, IMHO. _Teeth of the Tiger_ was rock-bottom. Maybe he’s gotten rich enough that he thinks he doesn’t need to put in the effort to turn out the wonderfully detailed books of the past. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/6 "2004-12-14T02:58:19Z")
I don’t think they’re being ghostwritten, though granted I quit him after Rainbow. I say that because it wasn’t like the sucky traits emerged from nowhere; they were already there, and they’ve gotten worse (i.e. Character development went from minimal to none) He’s gotten progressively worse: –More and more extraneous backstory on minor characters –More and more political stuff. –The annoying mannerism of the same one-liner being used multiple times by different characters. This wasn’t in his first couple of books. – Characters becoming increasingly one-dimensionally omnicompetent and noble (I expect Jack Ryan is now shitting odorless gold bricks and has been named pope) or the converse. –Each book getting longer and longer. The last of which isn’t bad per se, but it fits my overall thesis: He’s now _Tom Clancy_, goddammit, and he’s decided that he don’t need no damn editor anymore. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/7 "2004-12-14T03:02:38Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > This reaches its apex with _Teeth of the Tiger_. The word you want is _nadir_. Apex means the highest point and usually has a positive connotation. Nadir is the bottom. /English teacher ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/8 "2004-12-14T03:06:21Z")
I used to be a HUGE Clancy fan and I still have most of the novels on my shelf…but then the decline started. \*Rainbow 6 \* was Tom Clancy lite and not particulary satifsying(There’s something wrong when the computer game has a better plot then the book, and is more enjoyable to boot). I quit halfway through _Yellow Sausage Rising_, er…_Bear and Dragon_…eventually picking it up later to see what happened. I was still dissapointed, particulary with the ending, which was far too convienent to be plausible. I have Red Rabbit, but have had no urge to read it. Should I reconsider? Maybe I’ll go back and read \*Hunt for Red October \* again. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/9 "2004-12-14T03:11:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t know who ghost-wrote that piece of tripe, but I suspect it was someone who wrote some of the lesser _Executioner_ and _Destroyer_ books. Hey now! Let us not bad-mouth Sapir and Murphy. _The Destroyer_ series was excellent! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/10 "2004-12-14T03:13:40Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I don’t think they’re being ghostwritten, though granted I quit him after Rainbow. I don’t think they’re being ghostwritten, though granted I quit him after Rainbow. > [@furt](#): > > – Characters becoming increasingly one-dimensionally omnicompetent and noble (I expect Jack Ryan is now shitting odorless gold bricks and has been named pope) or the converse. Oddly enough, in Teeth of the Tiger we see that Ryan has resigned, been replaced by Jackson, who is assassinated by a Klansman. Unless I was so bored that I skipped over it (possible) nothing is really said about why St Jack would throw the towel in. You aren’t missing anything by not reading this. It reminds me of a book I bought from a Survivalist author one time for a giggle which focused on America after the Democrats disarmed the country and invited the Russians in to help them keep the peace. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/11 "2004-12-14T03:16:31Z")
Yes, the ending of \*Bear \* also pissed me off. Way too cheery and unlikely for my taste. I also concur that if he is having his work looked at by any sort of editor above the 4th grade reading label, that person should be shot. I just remembered seeing a stupid number of misspellings and other obvious grammatical errors. This is the nadir of arrogance! 😉 [SIZE=1]Or would \*height \*be more appropo here?[/SIZE] ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/12 "2004-12-14T03:53:02Z")
I read the one Clancy book where the Prince of Wales visits Ryan at his house, and then gets stuck on a boat somewhere near a cliff. Or something like that. Regardless, it was a horrible book with absolutely no character development. The only thing the man can write well about–at least to me, the guy who’s most certainly not an expert–is weaponry. Other than that, he’s worse than Grisham and Koontz when it comes to dialogue, plot and, well, pretty much everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/13 "2004-12-14T03:53:16Z")
What, would you have preferred D.C. get turned into a glass parking lot? The only thing that bugs me about Clancy is the foreshadowing is way too obvious, they’ll talk about a particular technology throughout the book, and its always that Magic Widget Guidance system which saves America at the last second. Clancy’s books can get a little formulaic. Here’s what I see- 1.) Bad guys plotting 2.) Technogeek showing off some technology 3.) Wierd crap happens. Good guys run in circles for a few dozen chapters. 3a. Good guy spies start sniffing around. 4.) Bad guys carry out plan 4a. Good guy spies get to humping foreign women 😃 5.) Good guys get caught with pants down 5a. After post-coital smoke, good guy spy tells good guys, “Oh yeah, badguys are on to something” 6.) Good guys fight back, whoop on bad guys 7.) Bad guys pull trump card at last moment 8.) Techno-wizardry saves the day. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/14 "2004-12-14T05:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **SkipMagic** : > I read the one Clancy book where the Prince of Wales visits Ryan at his house, and then gets stuck on a boat somewhere near a cliff. Or something like that. Regardless, it was a horrible book with absolutely no character development. The only thing the man can write well about–at least to me, the guy who’s most certainly not an expert–is weaponry. Other than that, he’s worse than Grisham and Koontz when it comes to dialogue, plot and, well, pretty much everything else. This is one of his better, earlier works we mentioned. Just imagine how the bad ones are! ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/15 "2004-12-14T06:44:19Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > [SIZE=1]Or would \*height \*be more appropo here?[/SIZE] Yes. And it’s spelled “Apropos.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/16 "2004-12-14T07:06:03Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I read the one Clancy book where the Prince of Wales visits Ryan at his house, and then gets stuck on a boat somewhere near a cliff. Or something like that. Regardless, it was a horrible book with absolutely no character development. The only thing the man can write well about–at least to me, the guy who’s most certainly not an expert–is weaponry. Other than that, he’s worse than Grisham and Koontz when it comes to dialogue, plot and, well, pretty much everything else. That’s Patriot games. I always had trouble getting through it after the inital action died down. Still least my least favorite of the Early books. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/17 "2004-12-14T07:08:36Z")
What, a Tom Clancy pitting and no mention of his “whore my name all over the place” spin-off novels, like the _Tom Clancy’s Op-Center_ or the _Tom Clancy’s Net Force_ stuff? The first few are fun, in a fluffy cotton candy sort of way, but after a little while you realize all he’s doing(\*) is repackaging the same stuff in a new box. (\* = Or, more likely, his ghostwriter, but you get the idea) ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/18 "2004-12-14T07:12:55Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > What, a Tom Clancy pitting and no mention of his “whore my name all over the place” spin-off novels, like the _Tom Clancy’s Op-Center_ or the _Tom Clancy’s Net Force_ stuff? The first few are fun, in a fluffy cotton candy sort of way, but after a little while you realize all he’s doing(\*) is repackaging the same stuff in a new box. > > (\* = Or, more likely, his ghostwriter, but you get the idea) In an earlier post, I tried to say that I would not say that his ‘main’ books were not ghostwritten, as the Netforce series is ghostwritten. Of course, like a total idiot, I cut and pasted a line from the post I was quoting and wiped out my comment. In my defense, my keyboard has a silly habit of doing that, jumping the cursor around the screen and highlighting passages which get deleted when I type anything. That’s why I hand write my exams. Maybe Clancy’s keyboard does the same. It would explain the pile of shite he has been writing recently. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/19 "2004-12-14T07:13:33Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > What, would you have preferred D.C. get turned into a glass parking lot? The only thing that bugs me about Clancy is the foreshadowing is way too obvious, they’ll talk about a particular technology throughout the book, and its always that Magic Widget Guidance system which saves America at the last second. > > 7.) Bad guys pull trump card at last moment > > 8.) Techno-wizardry saves the day. Again, that’s what bugs me. In real life, if China launched a Nuke at the US, there would be nothing we could do, other then perhaps exercise the option to shoot back. I was bugged by the rudimetry missle defense system that just HAPPENS to be parked near the target of the missle that got away. It felt a little too much like a Dues Ex Machina, or HOLLYWOOD TYPICAL “SAVE THE WORLD AT THE LAST MINUTE” HAPPY ENDING. I know he does this every time, but I guess this just went a bit too far or was just once too often for me to tolerate. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699/20 "2004-12-14T11:34:46Z")
I agree with others that _Rainbow Six_ was the point where I started wondering if it was worth it. I haven’t read the latest and probably won’t bother, since they seem to be getting worse and worse. _Cardinal of the Kremlin_ and _Clear and Present Danger_ remain as comfortable friends, though. My BIL named his first son “Jack Ryan” and looked at us weirdly when we fell about laughing and making spy jokes. What’s even funnier, he’s read most of the series to, and didn’t click until we fessed up. I’m going to buy the whole set for the little tacker when he gets older 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-does-tom-clancys-recent-work-blow/279699.md?page=2)