# Is it just me or is the job matching mechanism in the USA absurdly inefficient? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306 "2019-02-10T22:44:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/41 "2019-02-15T18:09:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If there’s one thing that hurts you in trying to find a job, it’s not having one to begin with. It’s like prospective employers assume you’re in **iamthewalrus(:3='s** “slush pile” and are out of work for an actual job performance/ability related reason. > > It’s like job hunting leprosy or something. And it’s completely stupid. It’s very frustrating, but it’s rational behavior on the part of the employer. People without a job might be great employees whose lack of a job is not their fault, or they might be slush. People with a job are significantly less likely to be slush. **JcWoman** , do you think your experience is typical? Do you think that it takes most high-skilled workers in hot labor markets over a year to find a job? My impression is that it doesn’t, and that your experience is not representative. [This page supports my intuition](https://talent.works/blog/2017/09/22/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-a-job-60-days-if-youre-in-hr-or-sales/). For most roles it takes a month or two. Although it looks like my estimation of the number of applications is quite a bit off. On average it takes 10 applications to get an interview and 10 interviews for an offer, so if the reasonable people are getting a job in a month or two they’re applying to 50-100 jobs a month on average. I’m not trying to discount your experience, just saying that I don’t think it’s the norm. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/42 "2019-02-15T19:40:53Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > On average it takes 10 applications to get an interview and 10 interviews for an offer, so if the reasonable people are getting a job in a month or two they’re applying to 50-100 jobs a month on average. I’m not trying to discount your experience, just saying that I don’t think it’s the norm. See that doesn’t track at ALL with my experiences or those of my colleagues and friends. Our experiences tend to be that applying for jobs is a mostly losing bet, as the job poster is usually swamped by applications. We’ve all still done it, but without any real expectation. It’s worked, but not because we applied to 50 jobs a month. Even in a big area like DFW, in an industry that’s large and hot like IT, there aren’t usually 50 new jobs per month that you are qualified for to apply for. Instead, it seems to be the same 20 or so on every job site, for the same companies. I haven’t figured out if they’re just terrible places to work and have constant turnover, if they have shitty salary/benefits, or if they’re just really picky, and holding out for that one unicorn to apply. Headhunters and connections are the main ways we’ve found jobs. Headhunters tend to call you pretty quickly if you’re a good fit for a job they have, I’ve found. Connections are the best- you’ll hear of upcoming job openings, and be able to skip the winnowing process in most cases. Sometimes you’ll even get endorsements in the bargain. And if you’re really lucky, you can actually get a job designed for you if they know you well enough and want YOU more than taking a chance on the outside world. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/43 "2019-02-15T19:54:25Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Whatever the numbers are, can we agree that the continuum I suggested exists? Higher skilled people apply to fewer jobs and find a job faster on average and lower skilled people apply to more jobs on average and are out there looking longer/more often? Yeah, I am in agreement with your continuum. I do think that the top end of skilled people who have an easier time getting hired (so a shorter search period) is a lot smaller than it used to be, though. Not because the candidates are poorer, but because employers are so ridiculously picky. > [@bump](#): > > Were you actually employed during this 1.5 years and looking for a job, or were you literally unemployed? I was employed during that time. > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > **JcWoman** , do you think your experience is typical? Do you think that it takes most high-skilled workers in hot labor markets over a year to find a job? My impression is that it doesn’t, and that your experience is not representative. > > [This page supports my intuition](https://talent.works/blog/2017/09/22/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-a-job-60-days-if-youre-in-hr-or-sales/). For most roles it takes a month or two. Although it looks like my estimation of the number of applications is quite a bit off. On average it takes 10 applications to get an interview and 10 interviews for an offer, so if the reasonable people are getting a job in a month or two they’re applying to 50-100 jobs a month on average. I’m not trying to discount your experience, just saying that I don’t think it’s the norm. I think my experience is pretty typical. As mentioned above, I’m in agreement with your continuum, and would place myself somewhere in the upper side of the middle of it. Where are you getting the “10 applications and 10 interviews to get an offer”? Your cite doesn’t even say that. They suggest that you have to do around (it depends on the job type/market) 10-20 applications to get an interview and 10-15 interviews to get an offer. (I assume they mean 10-15 interviews with different companies. If you add up ALL the interviews the number is much higher because so many companies now force the best candidates through 3 or more interviews. I’ve heard the occasional horror story from people enduring 8 rounds of interviews to get a job at one company!) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/44 "2019-02-15T22:47:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think this one is the primary driver, at least from the vantage point of my career. > > Companies seem to be approaching hiring as a much more transactional event than in the past. From what I understand about the past, and what I recall about my first jobs 20 years ago, hiring someone was very much about the long term- you were making sure this person had the basic skills for the job, but you were mostly trying to make sure you were finding someone who would be a net asset for the company- someone whose ability to learn, grow and innovate would help the company over the long term, even if they didn’t fit the exact requirements for the job position you had. The expectation was that you could figure out the parts you didn’t know. That’s what I have noticed as well. In the past (as in up until about 4 years ago when I last looked for a job) my skills, experience and education were pretty much sufficient to land me a job with 1-4 months of looking. Sometimes I had gaps in what they were looking for, but usually they were willing to overlook that. > [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > I haven’t been in the job market recently, but I wasn’t intending to be flippant, just illustrative. > > Whatever the numbers are, can we agree that the continuum I suggested exists? Higher skilled people apply to fewer jobs and find a job faster on average and lower skilled people apply to more jobs on average and are out there looking longer/more often? Well, yes, I think that should be obvious. Still sucks for anyone who isn’t a “full stack” developer with AI/ML experience, a degree from Stanford and a series of job stints at Facebook, Google and Amazon. Which kind of speaks to the inefficiency of the process. For the top candidates, it’s pretty clear where the top jobs are. For everyone else, it’s like finding a needle in a stack of needles. From my personal experience, I’ve been looking for a job for about 5 months now. This is probably one of the longest stretches I’ve been without a job. Although, year end and the holidays does tend to extend things a bit. I’ve had interviews with about 20 companies so far. By “interview” I basically mean any interaction where a recruiter or hiring manager from the company returned my call/application and initiated the process. Of those 20 companies, maybe 3 are still in the process (probably not), 2 are “on hold”, but are at least communicating and the rest are evenly split between rejections and simple “ghosting”. So for all intents and purpose, I need to start from scratch come Monday. For prior job searches, about 7 years ago, my job at a startup didn’t work out. Within 2 months I had a 1 year contract at a Fortune 500 insurance company project managing data science teams (it was actually a really neat job). I also had another offer from a firm I worked for 10 years earlier. 6 years ago when the contract ended, the headhunter who found me the prior contract hooked me up with a small consulting firm. I applied to another consulting firm/digital agency through Indeed, who immediately responded back. The process dragged for a few months, but I took an offer from the second firm (the first one gave me an offer 6 months later, which I’m not sure I shouldn’t have taken). 4 years ago when I was laid off after my firm was acquired, my job search took about 4 months. But it was constantly busy with informational interviews, meetups, in-person interviews and finally an offer. So it always felt like an offer was right around the corner. But for some reason, job hunting feels very different now. I’ve been getting a fair number of call backs, but they just seem to be endless phone screens. Questions are very vague, open ended or plain stupid (do you have any experience managing people? No…those Manager and Director titles on my resume are ceremonial). And my experience does not seem to be isolated. A bunch of CTO level tech people at a Meetup I attend are experiencing a similar phenomenon with their search. > [@JcWoman](#): > > If you add up ALL the interviews the number is much higher because so many companies now force the best candidates through 3 or more interviews. I’ve heard the occasional horror story from people enduring 8 rounds of interviews to get a job at one company!) Typically, in the consulting firms where I’ve worked, you usually have: 1 HR phone screen 2-3 interviews by managers or peers 1 case interview (a technical exercise, whiteboard demonstration or abstract “golf balls on a 747” problem). 1 final meeting with a practice director. The startup I mentioned before had a ton: Phone screen My boss Head of NY office CTO CEO The team I’d be managing Lunch Take home data analytics exam It just seemed like it went on forever. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/45 "2019-02-15T23:52:23Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > But it’s not just inefficiency for me. I have a skillset that is a common enough commodity there are thousands of openings, but rare enough that there are openings, the positions aren’t all filled at the present. (embedded CS, Linux device drivers, BSP, that sorta thing). > > I would like to efficiently find what the best offer possible out of all these thousands of opening is. Also I would like to even be seen by a particular company if I wanted to work there. > > I can do neither. There is no practical way for me to apply to every company offering a job with this kind of commodity skillset, and even if I set out to do this, each application system wastes my time one way or another. Moreover, even though I have strong experience that means I can work on a massive range of embedded systems, if I look at specific listings, it is not uncommon to see demands for something I haven’t touched - and almost no one else in the world has. Rarely used CAN bus analyzers, some specific software package for PLC controllers, that sort of shit. Some of the stuff you describe can be considered as features, not bugs. If you could apply to each and every job you might be qualified for, so can everyone else. And trust me, people apply for jobs they are in no way qualified for. A better system would force people to research companies that they might be interested in, and apply to the best - with a cover letter that shows the applicant has made the effort to see if he or she is a match. And personal connections - either through a network or by calling someone up - is absolutely the best way to show this. And you’ll be more likely to get a response than when you apply to hundreds of companies each of whom gets thousands of applications. The weird requirements come from trying to replace someone with arcane knowledge. Sometimes there just aren’t enough people around with specialized knowledge, and sometimes the company is too cheap to train a new person in the tool. As an analogy, consider what would happen if it was cheap and easy to apply to every college a person had any chance of getting into. Admissions offices would be overwhelmed and would probably toss 90% of the applications they get. It is bad enough already. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/46 "2019-02-16T00:03:07Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Also not giving the “correct” answer. > > Once on an interview I was akised do I prefer working by myself or with a group. I said both. Not good enough. They wanted me to choose. I went back and forth that I was fine with both but finally said maybe by myself. > > But they took that as the wrong answer since they wanted people who said “group”. Here’s the right answer to that question: "I love working in groups, and I’ve always interacted well with my team mates (give an example here.) And of course when I get action items out of group meetings I’m very comfortable working by myself to finish them ahead of schedule. " See - you answer both but don’t seem wishy washy about it. Though I bet group is preferable 95% of the time - unless the job is for lighthouse keeper or something. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/47 "2019-02-16T00:12:28Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Sure, there are plenty of people in the middle. People who probably consider a dozen or two jobs and maybe get to the interview stage with five and get two offers. But the low end is overrepresented in any sample of resumes or applicants. Because they keep applying to jobs and not getting them. Any process that makes it easier for the “normal” people to spread their job search far and wide will be inundated with unqualified applicants. Yes indeed. Not to mention the fact that the lower level people think that getting an interview is random chance, so sending out more resumes increases ones chances. I see comments from people who say they send out 100 resumes and are offended at not getting responses. They’d do better with 4 targeted resumes or direct emails. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/48 "2019-02-16T00:24:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Were you actually employed during this 1.5 years and looking for a job, or were you literally unemployed? > > If there’s one thing that hurts you in trying to find a job, it’s not having one to begin with. It’s like prospective employers assume you’re in **iamthewalrus(:3='s** “slush pile” and are out of work for an actual job performance/ability related reason. > > It’s like job hunting leprosy or something. And it’s completely stupid. I was doing a job fair, and a guy came up complaining about this, which is a real problem. I said we tried to understand (this was right after the end of the recession) but he didn’t even want to give me his resume. So either he came in to complain or liked to shoot himself in the foot. On the other hand, some resumes are clearly poison. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/49 "2019-02-16T00:34:21Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I’ve heard the occasional horror story from people enduring 8 rounds of interviews to get a job at one company!) What are you considering a “round”? 8 days worth of interviews would be a bit much, but 8 1-hour blocks spread between phone interviews and in-person sessions is completely typical in my industry. That’s about what I had just for an internship with my current company (and they were all hard technical sessions). It’s a bit much since despite asking a range of questions, we usually end up with a similar impression of the candidate. However, occasionally there will be an outlier and it’s good to have a decent sampling when deciding whether to take a risk or not. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/50 "2019-02-16T02:25:27Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > But even if there were some sort of national job-matching database, what’s to prevent the employers from listing absurd requirements and keyword filtering hoping to get that 3 year old Porsche for $5K? Usually two things will happen: The first is that employers will find it difficult to attract candidates with the qualifications they’re looking for. And when the employer does find that $5k Porsche it doesn’t take long before it drives away to some other company’s garage that’s paying a salary commensurate with their skills and experience. > [@](#): > > Another example of throwing out the job description when the “right” person comes through the door. Or another example of the whole process being a sham. Take your pick. I remember we had an applicant who was clearly not qualified for the position but the VP insisted we hire her. Turns out she was highly recommended by a friend of his, and, surprise, it turns out she couldn’t do the job because she wasn’t qualified. So before the year was out she ended up leaving and we had to hire another person. Thankfully the VP’s friends didn’t have any other candidates to recommend. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/51 "2019-02-16T02:33:50Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > **JcWoman** , do you think your experience is typical? Do you think that it takes most high-skilled workers in hot labor markets over a year to find a job? My impression is that it doesn’t, and that your experience is not representative. Do you think “high-skilled workers in hot labor markets” is representative? What you are talking about probably represents a narrow range of workers who studied the right major at the right college and have 2-5 years of work experience. Not everyone works in a “hot labor market”, nor do they need to. What if you work for some insurance company or product-based company for 20 years, made it to upper-middle management and it goes out of business? Are you now expected to go and become a devops engineer or learn AI programming because it’s the “hot thing”? How much is that going to cost and how long will it take? For low-level workers bees with the right skills, they can usually get picked up pretty quickly. What I’ve seen from older workers who have moved into management, a lot seem to become “independent consultants” and eek out a living doing random jobs for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/52 "2019-02-16T02:38:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Once on an interview I was akised do I prefer working by myself or with a group. I said both. Not good enough. They wanted me to choose. I went back and forth that I was fine with both but finally said maybe by myself. > > But they took that as the wrong answer since they wanted people who said “group”. We were interviewing a candidate for a management position and we asked him about his leadership style. He was the take charge and “my way or the highway” type of leader, which, honestly, works well in some places. But at my company the culture is one where leaders attempt to build a consensus among their peers and employees and we figured he wasn’t going to be a good fit. I will admit I like clear unambiguous answers from the people I interview. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/53 "2019-02-16T02:57:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > We were interviewing a candidate for a management position and we asked him about his leadership style. He was the take charge and “my way or the highway” type of leader, which, honestly, works well in some places. But at my company the culture is one where leaders attempt to build a consensus among their peers and employees and we figured he wasn’t going to be a good fit. So in that case the system worked. I kind of messed up an interview question today. The interviewer asked me if I was a “task person or people person”. I should have just said “people person”. While I’m thinking about it, another thing that pisses me off is this whole thing about “unqualified” or “slush pile” candidates. Not everyone can be the crème de la crème. But I think most people want to work and contribute and add value. Obviously you need the skills to do the job, but it’s kind of bullshit to expect everyone to have these perfect resumes with perfect skill sets. I mean how does anyone even change jobs or industries if you can only get hired doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the past 5-10 years? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/54 "2019-02-16T04:20:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I kind of messed up an interview question today. The interviewer asked me if I was a “task person or people person”. I should have just said “people person”. I hate those kinds of questions. We use Targeted Selection which is predicated on the idea that the best way to figure out how someone will behave is to see how they behaved in the past. So we’ll ask the candidate about a **s** ituation or a **t** ask and we’re looking for the **a** ction they took and the **r** esults. We then rate their answers on a scale between 1-5 with 3 being competent. i.e. You’d be comfortable with this person handling that task or situation again. > [@](#): > > While I’m thinking about it, another thing that pisses me off is this whole thing about “unqualified” or “slush pile” candidates. Not everyone can be the crème de la crème. But I think most people want to work and contribute and add value. This can change depending on the job itself as well as the market. When unemployment is low we can’t afford to be super picky and when unemployment is high we can be a bit more selective. I do have hiring managers sometimes come up with ridiculous minimum requirements on occasion. “No, we do not need a candidate with five years of experience for this entry level position.” > [@](#): > > Obviously you need the skills to do the job, but it’s kind of bullshit to expect everyone to have these perfect resumes with perfect skill sets. I mean how does anyone even change jobs or industries if you can only get hired doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the past 5-10 years? True. And then you run into people who have done the same thing for 5-10 years who can’t break into anything else because that’s all they’ve been doing the last decade. ---
**Author:** ![Pithily\_Effusive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pithily_effusive/32/252_2.png) [@Pithily\_Effusive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pithily_Effusive)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/55 "2019-02-19T00:19:10Z")
There’s a job matching system in the U.S.? Saints be praised! First I’ve heard of THIS! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/56 "2019-02-19T00:32:42Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > We were interviewing a candidate for a management position and we asked him about his leadership style. He was the take charge and “my way or the highway” type of leader, which, honestly, works well in some places. But at my company the culture is one where leaders attempt to build a consensus among their peers and employees and we figured he wasn’t going to be a good fit. Unfortunately for Mrs Cad she is a consensus building “servant leader” in an industry that values 1. Being male 2. Being former military or LEO So there is the management culture of “Do what I say or I’ll shove your head through the wall.” Now considering women suffer from the[likeability penalty](https://hbr.org/2013/04/for-women-leaders-likability-a) for being direct she is all sorts of screwed looking for a job. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/57 "2019-02-19T18:55:07Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Do you think “high-skilled workers in hot labor markets” is representative? What you are talking about probably represents a narrow range of workers who studied the right major at the right college and have 2-5 years of work experience. > > Not everyone works in a “hot labor market”, nor do they need to. What if you work for some insurance company or product-based company for 20 years, made it to upper-middle management and it goes out of business? Are you now expected to go and become a devops engineer or learn AI programming because it’s the “hot thing”? How much is that going to cost and how long will it take? > > For low-level workers bees with the right skills, they can usually get picked up pretty quickly. What I’ve seen from older workers who have moved into management, a lot seem to become “independent consultants” and eek out a living doing random jobs for awhile. I’m not sure if you’re asking me or **JcWoman** , but if it’s me, I’ll answer. No, I don’t think high-skilled workers in hot labor markets are representative of the general job-finding experience. Which is why it was surprising for me to hear that someone who fit that description took such a long time to find a job. My impression is that most people who are looking for a job right now (when we’re basically at full employment) will find something within a month or two. I mean, for one thing, most people don’t have the resources to go without income for a long period. It seems to me that part of it is that **JcWoman** was doing something a bit different than I was considering. She _had_ a job, and was looking for a better one. You’re necessarily going to be more discriminating in that position. For one, there’s probably less urgency in your search. For two, you’re only going to consider jobs that are better than your current state. If you don’t have a job, there are a lot more jobs better than nothing, and a lot of economic pressure (for most people) to get one soon. I would also describe myself as a high-skilled worker in a hot labor market, and I’m fairly confident that I could find another job within a few months. To be fair, I haven’t looked for a job recently, so I might be _wrong_ about that. That job might not be as good as my current job, but I bet I could find something reasonably comparable that would (1) use my skills and (2) keep a roof over my family’s head. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/58 "2019-02-19T20:57:53Z")
This might be a bit of superstition but I think only people with high charisma or a great ability to market/sell themselves can get a new job in under three months. The market really has changed out there. As I mentioned before, even in a hot market, it’s not uncommon for candidates to have to apply to 100+ job postings before they get a response to just one or two. And this is with targeted applications, not just shotgunning your resume. Of the callbacks that I got last year, most of them were screening calls where I couldn’t tell what they were looking for. They’d generally tell me about the company values (those are big these days) and ask questions like “what does it mean to be a consultant” or “give me the highlights of your background”. And then I’d never hear anything more from them (ghosted). Here’s a fun one that happened: An external recruiter found me on LinkedIn and emailed a very brief (business analysis) job description to me and asked me to call him if I was interested. I did, had a nice chat with him and he said he’d put me forward for the job. He called me back a few minutes later and asked if I had a technical background. I said that I did, so he was “great!” and hung up. About an hour later he called back to say that his boss didn’t think my resume sounded like I was technical and asked me to tweak it a bit. He said they were particularly looking for experience with Java. Note that no programming languages or other technical details were mentioned in the job description. I had previously removed my technical details thinking they might be scaring off potential employers, so I added them back in to his version, citing my experience with Java, Cobol, etc. and sent it over to him. He called me and was very excited to learn that I had a Cobol background. Said I’d be a shoe-in, and I’d hear back from him in a day or two. So, days pass and the following week I email him to inquire how things were progressing. He replied to say that the client company was looking for someone with SQL database experience. Also never mentioned in the job description. Too many companies don’t even know what they want, and even when they do they fail to mention details in the job ads. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306/59 "2019-02-20T03:27:46Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I’m not sure if you’re asking me or **JcWoman** , but if it’s me, I’ll answer. > > No, I don’t think high-skilled workers in hot labor markets are representative of the general job-finding experience. Which is why it was surprising for me to hear that someone who fit that description took such a long time to find a job. > > My impression is that most people who are looking for a job right now (when we’re basically at full employment) will find something within a month or two. I mean, for one thing, most people don’t have the resources to go without income for a long period. Ironically, I think that because I was making the sort of income that allows me to go for a long time without making that income is preventing me from making more income. I’ve been looking for about 5 months (which unfortunately falls over the holidays). While I’ve been interviewing pretty steadily, I haven’t landed a job yet. I don’t think I’m doing anything particularly “wrong”. But I have 20 years experience in a fairly lucrative and selective field (management consulting). Even though I would actually rather not do consulting, I’m finding for a lot of jobs, they either want someone with less experience (who is cheaper) or someone with my experience, but who is very focused on a particular industry or skill. > [@JcWoman](#): > > This might be a bit of superstition but I think only people with high charisma or a great ability to market/sell themselves can get a new job in under three months. Unless you are someone who is just renown in their industry, or happen to have the right mix of skills at the moment a company is desperately conducting a search for them, a lot of is it luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-just-me-or-is-the-job-matching-mechanism-in-the-usa-absurdly-inefficient/829306.md?page=2)