# Is it Legal? Elon Musk ultimatum. Do ‘extremely hardcore’ work or get out **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040 "2022-11-16T17:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/1 "2022-11-16T17:11:13Z")
Can Musk or any boss make this demand? Work 12 hour days (long hours) or get out? The performance standards are off the chart. Exceptional performance? So, I’m exhausted working 72 hour weeks and my new code has a couple bugs that can be found and fixed. I get canned instead? WTF? Btw, he is cutting management and increasing programmers to develop Twitter 2 0. Is this legal in your opinion? Cite [https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/tech/elon-musk-email-ultimatum-twitter/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/tech/elon-musk-email-ultimatum-twitter/index.html) > [@](#): > > Twitter’s new owner Elon Musk has given employees until Thursday evening to commit to “extremely hardcore” work or else leave the company, according to a copy of a late-night internal email sent by the billionaire and obtained by CNN. > > “Going forward, to build a breakthrough Twitter 2.0 and succeed in an increasingly competitive world, we will need to be extremely hardcore,” Musk wrote in the memo. “This will mean working long hours at high intensity. Only exceptional performance will constitute a passing grade.” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/2 "2022-11-16T17:13:49Z")
I don’t like this thread game. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/3 "2022-11-16T17:15:55Z")
Oh geez. I clicked the wrong link. Imho is just below Thread Games Sorry. I asked mods to move it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/4 "2022-11-16T17:21:18Z")
[Moderating] Moved to IMHO. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/5 "2022-11-16T17:22:00Z")
Thank you Miller. Sorry again for my screw up. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/6 "2022-11-16T17:23:54Z")
Is it illegal? Are the workers being forced to work for Twitter and not allowed to leave the company? Unless a specific worker contract limits the hours an employee is expected to work, I don’t see how it is illegal. Unfair and stupid, no doubt. IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/7 "2022-11-16T17:25:19Z")
Sounds like a shitty way to get more people to leave the company. And if they quit, the company is not obligated to offer them severance. But, not illegal, AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/8 "2022-11-16T17:27:58Z")
Weren’t labor laws enacted that cap work hours and treatment of emploees? I know in my employment Supervisors have to be careful with performance reviews. They have to be fair. I did go to HR once because I felt my supervisor review was biased. The review was done over and less harsh. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/9 "2022-11-16T17:31:15Z")
Working nights/weekends is not uncommon for “exempt” employees. It happens on occasion where I work (thankfully it is rare). I know game programmers get hit a lot with this and some put up with it because – “hey I’m making a cool game” (not what I do) I’m not sure what limits there are for exempt employees – may depend on the state. There are diminishing (and even negative) returns on extra work, esp for longer periods. Brian ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/10 "2022-11-16T17:33:38Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Is it illegal? Are the workers being forced to work for Twitter and not allowed to leave the company? Unless a specific worker contract limits the hours an employee is expected to work, I don’t see how it is illegal. Unfair and stupid, no doubt. IANAL. > [@snowthx](#): > > Sounds like a shitty way to get more people to leave the company. And if they quit, the company is not obligated to offer them severance. But, not illegal, AFAICT. All of this. As noted in other current threads about Musk and Twitter, long work hours are often the norm in salaried positions, especially in the tech industry. These employees are almost undoubtedly not in a union, nor part of a collective bargaining agreement in their employment with Twitter. The only thing that I could see possibly being, somehow, illegal in this is the short amount of time he’s giving employees to agree (or be laid off), but even then, I’m not aware of a specific law that would come into play. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/11 "2022-11-16T17:33:42Z")
In the EU, and the UK, [there are restrictions](https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intPageId=205) on how much overtime someone can be asked to work as part of their normal hours. So such an ultimatum would not be legal in these territories, and loudly annoucing it makes it a slam dunk for any employment tribunal. As a side note, the idea of super long hours making high-skill service workers more productive is completely flawed, and very old-fashioned. It leads to exhausted workers making mistakes. And frankly, it’s not like Twitter is at the forefront of applications technology. It’s a texting app. Its success will depend much more on having creative, engaged employees, who are not afraid to speak out, than cranking out code. I don’t like this version of [Brewster’s Millions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster%27s_Millions_(1985_film)), it’s been far too easy for him to throw away $44 billion. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/12 "2022-11-16T17:37:21Z")
It does sound like Twitter will become a sweat shop. Did Twitter have perks like Microsoft? Chefs cooking gourmet food, gym, rec room all designed to keep you in the building for extended hours. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/13 "2022-11-16T17:39:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It does sound like Twitter will become a sweat shop. It probably was already; IMO, Musk is just saying/reiterating the quiet part out loud, and giving himself (in his mind) some pretext for future firings. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/14 "2022-11-16T17:39:15Z")
I think Twitter just got rid of the free lunches. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/15 "2022-11-16T17:39:49Z")
I knew someone who worked at Twitter a few years ago and said it was a great company to work for with many employee benefits, like back massages. Similar to working at Facebook, Apple, or Google. All four are competing for the same employees. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/16 "2022-11-16T17:41:08Z")
Musk will provide massages wearing golf shoes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/17 "2022-11-16T17:41:59Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Similar to working at Facebook or Google. Which also are known for expecting long hours from employees. I interviewed with Facebook, a decade ago; in preparation for the interview, they sent me a link to a website that listed out a bunch of their employee perks. Included in those were free lunches **and dinners** in the employee cafeteria, as well as a service that would do your laundry for you, and deliver your clean clothes to you at your desk. It was pretty easy to read between those lines: “you’ll be in the office every waking hour, or close to it.” ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/18 "2022-11-16T17:43:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And frankly, it’s not like Twitter is at the forefront of applications technology. It’s a texting app. Its success will depend much more on having creative, engaged employees, who are not afraid to speak out, than cranking out code. Yeah, and what, exactly, are current employees going to be doing in all those extra hours and weekends? Doing the jobs of all the people who were recently let-go? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/19 "2022-11-16T17:44:03Z")
Pardon my ignorance, but what would a twitter employee actually do? I assume they need some IT people to keep the servers running, but everything else is automated, right? Posting a tweet doesn’t involve any personnel at the company. I’ve never seen ads, so I’m guessing the don’t need a sales force. I was unable to “unsubscribe” so I’m guessing no customer service. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/20 "2022-11-16T17:45:18Z")
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