# Is it Legal? Elon Musk ultimatum. Do ‘extremely hardcore’ work or get out **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040 "2022-11-16T17:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/181 "2022-11-20T16:47:43Z")
I probably sound a lot more bitter about it than I really am, upon re-reading my earlier post. What I saw happen multiple times earlier in my career was that the companies put a LOT of effort into getting everyone to be professional, put the company values first and foremost in our hearts, and generally tried to indoctrinate us as much as they possibly could in the company way of doing things. Then when times got tight, what did they do? Unceremoniously shitcanned whole swaths of employees, without regard to how cynical, skeptical, or company-kool-aid-drinking they were. And in terms of promotions, they didn’t seem to have anything to do with corporate loyalty and singing from the corporate hymnal, or even actual competence, but rather with how well someone had made themselves visible, not been entirely incompetent, and schmoozed with the management. Now I’m _considerably_ more skeptical of that sort of corporate rah-rah stuff; it seems very one sided to me now- they want us to do all that, but they’re not actually going to factor that in when it comes to layoffs or promotions. So I just do my thing and try to be quietly competent, but I’m not going out of my way to virtue signal my corporate loyalty or adherence to the vision statement, etc… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/182 "2022-11-20T19:00:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The overwhelming evidence shows that Musk is managing Twitter poorly. Companies like Twitter need their PR to be good to function. And their PR is really bad right now. His publicly traded companies are losing money. Musk is publicly showing a lack of knowledge in how to run the platform, harming the platform even further. He’s made really dumb decisions like the “pay for verification” option. He’s shown himself to be very vain, prioritizing shutting up the people who parodied him. He makes unreasonable demands, and has had systems shut down that should function. One might question why does Elon Musk have such a sense of reckless urgency about all this that it has to be done RIGHT NOW instead in any kind of planned way? It’s certainly legal AFAIK to have a demanding “hardcore” work environment. But usually something drives it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/183 "2022-11-20T19:06:08Z")
Perhaps he needed to gut the moderation staff and generally knock everyone off balance so he could then usher his friend Mr Trump back with open arms without getting any tiresome pushback from the Little People. In a deeper double-cross counter-plot, perhaps Trump has something on Musk and put him up to getting Trump back on Twitter by hook or by crook. Musk meanwhile sees himself as the future Emperor and wants the carnival barker out of the way. The Saudis bankroll the whole thing eager to ensure that 4 or 12 more years of climate change denial rules the USA. So Musk buys Twitter, torpedoes the shit out of Twitter below the waterline, then invites his nemesis Trump aboard with a broad smile and an expansive wave of his arm. Trump duly climbs aboard and … Oops, we’re out of time. The next episode will air next Sunday at 2pm (1pm Central). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/184 "2022-11-20T19:07:04Z")
Remember Bebo? AOL bought them for $850 million in 2008. The founders bought it back in 2013 for $1 million. I think that Jack Dorsey is going to get one hell of a deal in the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/185 "2022-11-20T19:10:25Z")
Trump said that he has no plans to Tweet ever again. He doesn’t want to undercut Truth Social. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/186 "2022-11-20T19:16:58Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Trump said that he has no plans to Tweet ever again. He doesn’t want to undercut Truth Social. ⁢ Sure, but that’s all the more reason to believe he will Tweet again. Not only because he’s that big a liar, but because it’s exactly the sort of sour grapes thing he would do. “You ban me from Twitter? Well, I didn’t wanna tweet anyway!” Plus he’s probably already made what money he could off of Truth Social. Even if he hadn’t before all this, now no one else has any reason to use it. Save maybe Alex Jones. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/187 "2022-11-20T19:23:49Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if he did but he made the claim again after he was reinstated. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/188 "2022-11-20T19:31:24Z")
I think Trump means it. He has been known to hold a grudge, I have heard. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/189 "2022-11-20T19:53:31Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > arm. Trump duly climbs aboard and … Oops, we’re out of time. The next episode will air next Sunday at 2pm (1pm Central). I put my Monopoly money on this scenario~double or nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/190 "2022-11-20T21:28:25Z")
Smart move by Elon. If Trump comes back to Twitter it kills Truth Social, and drives a ton of traffic to Twitter. If Trump doesn’t come back, Musk can take credit for unbanning him without having to put up with his bullshit. And since Truth Social will fail anyway, Trump takes the hit. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/191 "2022-11-20T23:13:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Smart move by Elon. If Trump comes back to Twitter it kills Truth Social, and drives a ton of traffic to Twitter. The vote was close. And the result was a bit surprising. If Musk could have limited the vote to Americans, I think that Those Who Approve of DJT + Free Speech Absolutists = clear majority. But outside the U.S., there are few who like Trump, and probably fewer free speech absolutists. Maybe Elon thought that a short-time poll would close before non-English speaking Trump opponents figured out how to vote with Google Translate. But the poll was a reckless move. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/192 "2022-11-21T00:50:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The only thing I saw from Musk didn’t say anything about screenshots of actual code. He said they had to bring a screenshot showing their checkins for the last six months, and that they had to explain the value to the company of those checkins. > > That’s very different than having someone bring in a screen shot of a screen of code, which would be stupid. From [If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now. - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/18/23466220/if-you-still-work-at-twitter-and-you-can-code-head-to-the-hq-now) : “please email me a bullet point summary of what your code commits have achieved in the past ~6 months, along with up to 10 screenshots of the most salient lines of code.” Cited as contents of an email from Musk to the company’s software engineers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/193 "2022-11-21T01:46:30Z")
So, yeah, it was **that** stupid from the new evil boss. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/194 "2022-11-21T02:02:13Z")
So in other words, “Show me a list of what you have done, and bring a few examples of the work you are most proud of.” I’m not seeing the problem. It sounds like a fine way to do a quick evaluation of people. He isn’t asking for “a screenshot of a screen of code”. He’s asking for a list of everything a person has done in the recent past, and a few pieces of actual code that you think represent your best work. Then you get to tell him why. That’s probably more illuminating than the code, especially if a few pointed questions are asked along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/195 "2022-11-21T02:16:20Z")
What part of > [@](#): > > along with up to 10 screenshots of the most salient lines of code was unclear? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/196 "2022-11-21T03:06:29Z")
I’ve gotta say, I’m not a programmer, but I do work with code. If someone asked me to take up to 10 screenshots of the most “salient” lines of code, I’d be absolutely flabbergasted. I have no idea what that even MEANS. Like, if you’re asking me about an error the system throws, or a value that populates incorrectly, or a function that fails, I could help you identify lines of code that are related to whatever it is that the software is trying and failing to do. If you’re thinking of modifying something and want to know what else might be impacted, sure, we can identify lines of codes that point back to the part of the software you want to mess with. Now, I probably wouldn’t give you a screenshot of those lines of code, mind you - that would be pretty fucking useless, since you wouldn’t be able to do any of the useful things you might like to do with pitentially problematic code if all you have is a screenshot - but whatever. What Elon is asking them for, though, is screenshots of lines of code that are “salient” to the changes they’ve made in the in the last 6 months. That request seems so blind to how software code actually works that I almost find myself doubting how genuine the email is. Like, this seems like the sort of email you’d fake if you wanted to give the impression that Elon Musk doesn’t know how code works and has never worked at a software company before, forgetting that he does know how to code and that he actually started off in software. Of course, Musk was ousted as CEO of both Zip2 and PayPal, so maybe he really IS this bad at running software companies. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/197 "2022-11-21T03:28:42Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > What part of > > > [@](#): > > > > along with up to 10 screenshots of the most salient lines of code > > was unclear? The part that doesn’t align with the narrative that Musk is a genius. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/198 "2022-11-21T09:07:10Z")
Yeah. Asking for salient lines of code is like asking for important tiles in a mosaic. Sure, there are probably a few, but most pieces are boring. It is their arrangement that makes them what they are, and you can only see that in the zoomed out view. Edit: in fact the best code probably _should be_ boring. It should be something others can look at and simply understand without any excitement. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/199 "2022-11-21T12:04:57Z")
Is Musk smart enuf to connect lines of code to a specific individual? Could one just show him a bunch of random stuff and say it’s theirs just for this crazy exercise? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/200 "2022-11-21T12:09:04Z")
Now I want to send my PhD code to a Twitter engineer and find out. 🙂 … Except it would probably get them fired. 🤣 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040.md?page=11)