# Is it Legal? Elon Musk ultimatum. Do ‘extremely hardcore’ work or get out **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040 "2022-11-16T17:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/121 "2022-11-19T01:24:10Z")
Or they are bots, now that no one is trying to prevent bots from posting. That seems the most likely to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/122 "2022-11-19T01:36:14Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Ooo… an increase of 1.2% from the low in July. Yay. Note the 240-some-million of the graph cut off to make it seem like a huge increase. And, if those numbers are to be believed, how many are to watch the shit show go down? An increase is not a decrease. The people saying that Twitter is shedding users are not correct. Twitter is still growing. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/123 "2022-11-19T01:40:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The people saying that Twitter is shedding users are not correct. Twitter is still growing. So is cancer. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/124 "2022-11-19T01:45:03Z")
Holy non-sequitur, Batman! Incidentally, I don’t use Twitter other than to read breaking news, and my only post to it was a tweet mocking Trump in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/125 "2022-11-19T01:54:37Z")
Your implied claim that any growth is good growth is so evidently nonsense that it bears comment. If this “growth” is would-be insurrectionists and conspiranoists, Twitter is better off without it…unless, of course, you are of the Friedrich Flick mentality that success by any means is its own virtue, the deaths of a few millions of _undesirable_ people be damned. Morality is such a last century modality, amitrite? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/126 "2022-11-19T02:01:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Your implied claim that any growth is good growth is so evidently nonsense that it bears comment. I made no such claim! I just pointed out that Twitter is growing, not shrinking as others are suggesting. I have no odea who is joining, and neither do you. I suspect that it’s simply due to the amount of media coverage the whole thing is getting. Free advertising. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The Musk takeover of Twitter has nothing to do with “Agile” philosophy. I referenced Agile only in the sense of rapid iteration and a commitment to refactoring. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/127 "2022-11-19T02:05:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I referenced Agile only in the sense of rapid iteration and a commitment to refactoring. That’s all. You do this on the PRODUCTION systems? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/128 "2022-11-19T02:12:16Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > You do this on the PRODUCTION systems? I don’t do it on anything right now, as I’m retired. But yes, Agile is used on production systems. Continuous integration, continuous deployment. On the web, new features can be released almost daily, and you can’t afford six month development cycles. You need lots of automated testing to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/129 "2022-11-19T03:41:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have no odea who is joining, and neither do you. I suspect that it’s simply due to the amount of media coverage the whole thing is getting. Free advertising. “Free advertising” is not a net benefit. It is far more likely that any additions are people motivated by Elon Musk’s vision of “free speech”, i.e. MAGA boosters, conspiranoists, “naturopathic medicine practitioners”, people selling pornography, and anyone else blocked from normal social media. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I referenced Agile only in the sense of rapid iteration and a commitment to refactoring. That’s all. “Agile” is a specific approach to software development with specified methods, and “refactoring” code has a particular meaning; it is patently ridiculous to compare what Elon is doing to Agile development and refactoring code. He his hip-jerking decisions that impact thousands of developers who have worked to make Twitter what it was—for better or worse—with zero consideration for the well-being of employees, the consideration of current users, or the eventual success of the company. In fact, if he had deliberately invoked a strategy to destroy the Twitter platform he could scarcely have applied a better strategy except that Musk has never demonstrated a strategy to anything that he does, deigning such ‘details’ to less worthy underlings. But sure, he’s hiring back “Ligma & Johnson” in a deliberate and planned effort to restructure Twitter into a veritable icon of free speech. Please continue; I’ve missed _Monty Python’s Flying Circus_ and have been pining for a revival for decades. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/130 "2022-11-19T03:56:42Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > An increase is not a decrease. The people saying that Twitter is shedding users are not correct. Twitter is still growing. Nature of the users I know not. What I do know is that users are the product; advertisers are the customers. Products can be attractive to buyers or not. What’s happening with the advertisers, the payers of the bills? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/131 "2022-11-19T04:16:53Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Similar to what happened at my company when they wanted to reduce staff (especially more expensive longtime employees). They offered a way too generous package and panicked when quadruple the number of people expected took the early retirement. They could keep some people for a little while, but a bunch of others were rehired as contract workers while they had all their retirement benefits. Expensive lesson. I was in what was going to be Lucent, and all Bob Allen (the CEO of AT&T) wanted was to reduce expenses for the upcoming IPO. Since he was going with the main AT&T he didn’t give a crap if Lucent collapsed. It didn’t, not quite. I made out like a bandit, I’m not complaining. And they were talking about moving chemists to EE and programming jobs to fill the holes. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/132 "2022-11-19T04:18:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > An increase is not a decrease. The people saying that Twitter is shedding users are not correct. Twitter is still growing. Are they growing advertising revenue? Lots of users but no advertisers is not the road to success. Stranger forgot to mention that they trashed the ad sales department in his list. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/133 "2022-11-19T04:51:47Z")
If I was a dedicated scamster with e.g. penis enhancements to sell I know exactly where I’d be registering thousands of fresh shillbot accounts right now. I’ll make plenty of money, Coke or GM ads won’t get in my way, and it’ll be glorious free-reign capitalism = rip-off salesmanship until the Last Day. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/134 "2022-11-19T04:54:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Stranger forgot to mention that they trashed the ad sales department in his list. What is ad sales when your demographic is just the MyPillow guy and some off-brand dick pills? You just need one guy with some minimal Django skills to update the ads. Anyway, I’m sure the future of Twitter is robust with all of the Infowars crossovers. Who needs developers to maintain an established codebase, anyway? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/135 "2022-11-19T05:03:10Z")
Regardless of what is going on with Musk at Twitter, it is not his only concern. If Tesla deserves its evaluation, it presumably does so because of Musk. If his mind is elsewhere, his other companies may or may not be better off. But shareholders don’t like it when attention is too divided, and if he has a turnaround plan now is the time to bring it. When good workers leave, so does lots of the institutional memory. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/136 "2022-11-19T05:23:23Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > If Tesla deserves its evaluation, it presumably does so because of Musk. If his mind is elsewhere, his other companies may or may not be better off. Actually, the evidence is that “Musk’s” companies actually function better when his attention is elsewhere. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/137 "2022-11-19T07:10:46Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Actually, the evidence is that “Musk’s” companies actually function better when his attention is elsewhere. I figured as much, but it would be nice to actually see some of this evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/138 "2022-11-19T07:24:46Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t see any “philosophy” at all. > > Certainly not anything having to do with “Agile” as I understand it. There is a fairly common notion in the tech world that people are doing ‘Agile’ just because they’re spending minimal time planning and specifying things, and more time rapidly trying things out, with a view that they will deliver important parts of a product really fast and efficiently\* \*They generally don’t, in fact the most common outputs are waste, failure and staff turnover, but these people are in some weird sense, self-describing as ‘Agile’. Often they worked with someone who was Agile trained and they took in some of the ideas about why Agile can be good, along with a much smaller amount of actual framework concepts. It’s not Agile, but it thinks it is real hard. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/139 "2022-11-19T07:59:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I made no such claim! I just pointed out that Twitter is growing, not shrinking as others are suggesting. And why do you think Twitter is growing? Is there any evidence of that, outside of some public statements made by Elon Musk, who… has a history of saying untrue things? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/140 "2022-11-19T13:01:14Z")
> [@nate](#): > > I figured as much, but it would be nice to actually see some of this evidence. Given that every time you are presented evidence of Musk’s perfidy [you respond with flat denial and dissimulation by way of claiming I and others are being dishonest and ultimately derailing the discussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/88) in thread after thread, I’m not playing your reindeer games and would discourage anyone everyone else from doing so. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040.md?page=8)