# Is it Legal? Elon Musk ultimatum. Do ‘extremely hardcore’ work or get out **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040 "2022-11-16T17:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/141 "2022-11-19T14:14:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have no odea who is joining, and neither do you. And that has nothing to do with that graph. That wasn’t a graph of new users or accounts, it wasn’t even a graph of number of posts, it was a graph of daily active users. So, anyone that clicks a link to a tweet about the shitshow going down at twitter gets counted. I know that _my_ personal twitter use has gone up since Musk bought it out, just as I can’t help myself but to slow down and rubberneck when there is a flaming car wreck on the interstate. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/142 "2022-11-19T14:39:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Be careful not to stay in a bubble. I keep reading how Twitter is shedding users like crazy, but according to Musk Twitter is gaining users at a rapid clip. The “bubble” you are talking about is Twitter itself. It’s the reports from the people who used to work there, still work there, the experts on companies, etc. Why would I take the word of a single individual who has a vested interest in lying to save face over all of that? Especially when the person in question is a known liar, and keeps making posts indicating he doesn’t know what he’s doing? Furthermore, users are not the problem right now. It’s staffing and funding. It’s all the stuff breaking down, like people being locked out because the ID system broke down. It’s the advertisers abandoning the platform. It’s repeated, stupid decisions in public. Just yesterday he demanded all employees show up in person at San Fransisco by 2pm that day to justify themselves. He’s asking them to bring screenshots of code–not the actual code mind you, but screenshots. When reality goes up against what one person says, most of us go with reality, not the one person. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/143 "2022-11-19T14:43:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Furthermore, users are not the problem right now. “Quality” of users is becoming a problem, as all the “lords” are questioning their presence on a platform that treats them with contempt, and are looking for alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/144 "2022-11-19T16:48:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Elon makes mistakes because he moves fast, but like an Agile programmer he refactors quickly when things go wrong. I think we’re seeing the kind of iterative engineering philosophy applied to management of Twitter. I don’t know if it will work, but it’s interesting to watch Musk play it all out in public. So the employees of Twitter must pledge to be “extremely hardcore” (as if they weren’t already), and management will be by trial-and-error. I wonder how many “extremely hardcore” hours Elon Musk will be putting in each week. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/145 "2022-11-19T17:07:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wonder how many “extremely hardcore” hours Elon Musk will be putting in each week. - He has people for that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/146 "2022-11-19T17:14:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wonder how many “extremely hardcore” hours Elon Musk will be putting in each week. The fewer the better. He will consider staring vacantly at reams of printed code, tweeting insults at advertisers, users, and employees, and posing for pictures with trolls to be “work”. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/147 "2022-11-19T17:17:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wonder how many “extremely hardcore” hours Elon Musk will be putting in each week. Are you kidding? Elon is on Twitter for something like 22 hours a day. He’s more hardcore than Nina Hartley. He’ll be twittering his thumbs off like a teenager with a stolen issue of _Hustler_ featuring a Taylor Swift lookalike. He’s going to need half a dozen smartphones just to stay charged. He’ll manage by example, responding to every stupid comment with his classic humor and sagacious wit. And when Twitter servers finally crash and catch fire, he’ll film the implosion live on Instagram, which is the next social media site he will acquire and destroy for the lulz. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/148 "2022-11-19T17:40:32Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > I referenced Agile only in the sense of rapid iteration and a commitment to refactoring. That’s all. > > You do this on the PRODUCTION systems? Well no. Not to get off topic but you still do all the testing and QA you would in a traditional waterfall project. You are just doing it it smaller increments. That is to say, instead of designing, then building, then testing the entire application all at once you design, build, and test smaller self continued pieces of functionality and release them in “sprints”. It’s also a misconception that Agile is inherently faster. Agile is more flexible. It avoids the problem of having to design the perfect application up front with imperfect information, then having to make expensive redesigns down the road. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/149 "2022-11-19T17:53:27Z")
I’m curious how many people here have ever worked for similar “hard core” environments. I’ve worked for a few and have no desire to do so again. But Elon Musk’s management style is very similar to what I’ve seen in those environments. On of the top priorities is creating an almost cult-like culture. That’s what Elon is doing now. He wants people who will work all hours and kill themselves to make Twitter great. If you there for a cushy paycheck, looking to coast a few more years until retirement, complain, second guess Elon’s decisions, are too dumb to not be a rock star, or have other priorities in life besides Twitter, he doesn’t want you there. Along with a cult-like culture is distancing yourself from outside influences or opinions. Elon doesn’t care about the opinions of naysayers in the media who don’t like his management style or are predicting the “collapse of Twitter” The people who stay will be totally bought into what Elon is doing. The lower tier workers will ether quit or get asked to leave and the best of the best probably won’t put up his nonsense. But Elon will probably be left with a core of highly dedicated, reasonably competent staff. Then again, Elon could be blinded by his own arrogance and may have over extended himself with Twitter. That happens in these sorts of companies too. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/150 "2022-11-19T18:07:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Have you ever heard of the 212 - The Extra Degree training. Whoever came up with this is a True Asshole and should be subjected to beatings with a sack of doorknobs. Probably the same guy who invented the phrase “Think Out of the Box”. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/151 "2022-11-19T18:07:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > He’s asking them to bring screenshots of code–not the actual code mind you, but screenshots. That’s the part of that missive that made me laugh the hardest. My status in the chat program at work is “Please do not send me a picture of text.” If you do send me a picture of a code snippet or error message, you’ve gone out of your way to make both our lives harder, and you get moved to the bottom of the list of people to help. > [@msmith537](#): > > But Elon will probably be left with a core of highly dedicated, reasonably competent staff. Since he sent out a plea for anyone who actually knows how to write code yesterday, it sure looks like the folks who are still left aren’t useful for that core part of the business. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/152 "2022-11-19T18:14:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If you there for a cushy paycheck, looking to coast a few more years until retirement, complain, second guess Elon’s decisions, are too dumb to not be a rock star, or have other priorities in life besides Twitter, he doesn’t want you there. You left out “expect to be fairly compensated for your work or your contributions to the company…” from the list of people Musk wants out. No one earns a billions dollars. And Musk serves as a case in point. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/153 "2022-11-19T19:26:54Z")
An engineer at Twitter can earn $200k - $300k or more. So I think they get compensated pretty well. Hypothetically, if Twitter doubles its revenue from $5B to $10B under Elon’s new leadership, how much of that does he deserve? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/154 "2022-11-19T19:31:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > if Twitter doubles its revenue from $5B to $10B under Elon’s new leadership, how much of that does he deserve? Did you mean to ask about revenue or profit? You can increase revenue while decreasing profit, or vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/155 "2022-11-19T20:06:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Hypothetically, if Twitter doubles its revenue from $5B to $10B under Elon’s new leadership, how much of that does he deserve? If and when he actually does it, let me know and we’ll talk, but up front I’d say something comparable to a consulting fee. At base, it’s still workers putting in the work. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/156 "2022-11-19T20:55:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Given that every time you are presented evidence of Musk’s perfidy [you respond with flat denial and dissimulation by way of claiming I and others are being dishonest and ultimately derailing the discussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/88) in thread after thread, I’m not playing your reindeer games and would discourage anyone everyone else from doing so. Got it. You can’t back up your claims and excuse it by pointing out other times you couldn’t back up your claims. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/157 "2022-11-19T21:01:40Z")
Does anyone know why someone would request a screenshot of code, vice the actual code? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/158 "2022-11-19T21:06:34Z")
Only reason I can think of is that they’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/159 "2022-11-19T21:10:27Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Got it. You can’t back up your claims and excuse it by pointing out other times you couldn’t back up your claims. Not falling for your bait. Cast your line elsewhere. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040/160 "2022-11-19T21:11:25Z")
Moderating: > [@nate](#): > > > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > > Given that every time you are presented evidence of Musk’s perfidy [you respond with flat denial and dissimulation by way of claiming I and others are being dishonest and ultimately derailing the discussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053/88) in thread after thread, I’m not playing your reindeer games and would discourage anyone everyone else from doing so. > > Got it. You can’t back up your claims and excuse it by pointing out other times you couldn’t back up your claims. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Not falling for your bait. Cast your line elsewhere. This is getting heated and personal. Please both of you refrain from replying to each other in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-elon-musk-ultimatum-do-extremely-hardcore-work-or-get-out/975040.md?page=9)