# Is it legal for a church to discriminate potential employees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 30, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264 "2019-04-30T14:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/1 "2019-04-30T14:49:15Z")
Had a job match on Indeed for a senior graphic designer for a church. I meet all of the practical requirements, but they have a section in the job description about “loyalty”; applicant must be dedicated to the pastor’s vision, must live a virtuous life, must adhere to blah blah blah as described in Ezekiel, so forth and so on. Not that I really want to work there, but is it legal to demand these things from applicants? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/2 "2019-04-30T14:56:43Z")
There is [a list of criteria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_in_the_United_States) which, according to Federal law, a private employer may not use for determining hiring, firing, promotions, etc. Those include: - Race - Sex - Pregnancy - Religion - National Origin - Disability - Age (for people over age 40) - Military Service - Bankruptcy or bad debts - Genetic information - Citizenship status In addition, some states prohibit discrimination on other factors (such as sexual orientation). All of the above are referred to as “protected classes.” An employer _may_ discriminate on hiring on any dimension that isn’t a protected class. I suspect that the questions which that church is asking about is their back-door attempt to discriminate on the basis of religion, without flat-out saying “we will only hire you if you are a member of our faith” (which, legally, they cannot). ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/3 "2019-04-30T14:57:51Z")
Your question is based on the assumption that wanting a certain attitude in a candidate is somehow “discriminatory”. It isn’t. The fact is that you did NOT meet all the requirements because one of the requirements is that the person hired be on board with the pastor’s vision for the church. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/4 "2019-04-30T14:59:07Z")
[According to Legal Match, yes.](https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/religious-organizations-right-to-discriminate.html) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/5 "2019-04-30T15:00:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [According to Legal Match, yes.](https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/religious-organizations-right-to-discriminate.html) Feh, I forgot about the religious exemption. Good catch. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/6 "2019-04-30T15:12:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [According to Legal Match, yes.](https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/religious-organizations-right-to-discriminate.html) But it sounds like the requirements in the OP are not explicitly religious. They may well be, as **kenobi 65** said, a “back-door attempt to discriminate on the basis of religion”; but because of the religious exemption, would the church have been safer using the front door? ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/7 "2019-04-30T15:26:38Z")
It’s probably all legal. Morality clauses are common in many industries (Most notable are pro-athletes, but spokespeople and entertainers frequently have them as well. It’s why Roseanne could be fired from her own show.) Religion is a protected class, but for very obvious reasons, religious organizations are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/8 "2019-04-30T16:12:56Z")
A lot of over- and under-inclusion here (and that Legal Match article is so brief as to be virtually useless). The ministerial exception is [not a blanket exemption from federal employment discrimination law](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/565/171/). It applies to _ministers_. Hence the name. If the job involves solely secular duties, it’s unlikely that the church is permitted to discriminate on the basis of applicants’ religious beliefs. However, if it involves any type of religious activity, the church may be able to argue that it is a “ministerial” job that just happens to involve graphic design. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/9 "2019-04-30T16:26:00Z")
In addition to the religious groups exemption, it may also fall under the [bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#Title_VII%E2%80%94equal_employment_opportunity) exemption of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 > [@](#): > > an employer is permitted to discriminate on the basis of a protected trait where the trait is a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ) reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise. To prove the bona fide occupational qualifications defense, an employer must prove three elements: a direct relationship between the protected trait and the ability to perform the duties of the job, the BFOQ relates to the “essence” or “central mission of the employer’s business”, and there is no less-restrictive or reasonable alternative The oft quoted BFOQ example is it’s ok to discriminate against women (a usually protected class) if you’re hiring someone to model men’s clothing. so, in the op’s case; the employer can require all potential employees to adhere to the stated “mission” of the church, without actually requiring them to be of a specific religion. mc ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/10 "2019-04-30T22:02:04Z")
Of note, a religious organization can discriminate by religion only to the extent of preferring their own religion. Thus, for instance, a Christian school could legally favor a Christian applicant over a Jewish one, but could not favor a Jewish applicant over a Muslim or Hindu one. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/11 "2019-04-30T22:13:46Z")
If you want to work at the Ark Park–whether it be tour leader, bus driver, or dish washer, you must believe [all of these things](https://arkencounter.com/jobs/statement-of-faith/). And [it is perfectly legal](https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/04/15/christians-ark-encounter-jobs/83068580/). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/12 "2019-04-30T22:58:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of note, a religious organization can discriminate by religion only to the extent of preferring their own religion. Thus, for instance, a Christian school could legally favor a Christian applicant over a Jewish one, but could not favor a Jewish applicant over a Muslim or Hindu one. But how far does that break down? Could a Catholic school favor a Protestant applicant over a Jewish or Hindu one? Could they favor an Episcopalian over a Southern Baptist? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/13 "2019-05-01T00:09:21Z")
Well, since “christian” is not a religious organization but Protestant and Catholic are I would say the very narrow definition should apply. Therefore in order to invoke a religious or BFOQ exemption a Catholic org could only favor Catholics not just any christian. This [letter from the EEOC](https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/foia/letters/2004/religious_org_bfoq.html) seems to concur > [@](#): > > In addition to providing an exemption for religious organizations, Title VII permits any employer to hire and employ employees on the basis of religion for certain positions if religion is “a bona fide occupational qualification” (BFOQ) reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise. (2) This exemption is very narrow and has not often been successfully invoked. However, in one case, a court found that having a Jesuit presence in a philosophy department of a university was a BFOQ where the university was founded by Jesuits, continued to have a Jesuit tradition, and required all of its undergraduates to take philosophy. (3) Conversely, another court concluded that a Department of Corrections failed to demonstrate that Protestant religious affiliation was a BFOQ for a position as a prison chaplain, because chaplains were recruited and hired on a facility-wide basis and were entrusted with the job of planning, directing, and maintaining a total religious program for all inmates, whatever their respective denominations. So a Jesuit univ can require a philosophy teacher to be Jesuit, but a prison system cannot require that a chaplain be christian. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/14 "2019-05-01T01:02:04Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > So a Jesuit univ can require a philosophy teacher to be Jesuit, but a prison system cannot require that a chaplain be christian. To be accurate, that particular prison system could not require that a chaplain be Christian, because “chaplains were recruited and hired on a facility-wide basis and were entrusted with the job of planning, directing, and maintaining a total religious program for all inmates”. A different prison/jail system which hired multiple chaplains might be able to hire a certain number of Jewish chaplains ,a certain number of Muslim chaplains, a certain number of Protestant chaplains and so on. For example, Rikers Island in NYC has more than 25 chaplains - I’m pretty sure the DOC is permitted to try to ensure that all major faith groups are represented. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/15 "2019-05-01T01:12:06Z")
Religion is a bit different, because not only is it protected by civil rights legislation, it’s protected by the First Amendment, which is why the protection is stronger. For instance, you do have a right to proselytize at your workplace (on your own time of course) while other types of promotion are allowed to be banned. (religion too can be banned by the “no means no clause” on an individual basis) I don’t see how living a ‘virtuous life’ falls under any sort of discrimination. Companies can legally require you to do a lot of things, such as drive their cars, shop at only union shops and so on. I deal with this in my day to day job and most larger companies are open to compromises, like the Catholic places (hospitals, workplaces, stores) I deal with have daily prayers, and while they don’t require you to participate, you still have to attend, listen and sit quietly while they go on. This is tolerated by law so long as you don’t require the employee to actually participate. Even if it was illegal, and it might be considering location and exact wording, challenging it is difficult because you’re going to have to prove some sort of actual damage and the EEOC is going to require you go through them before you can even begin to think of suing, and it’s a long process which can take half a decade to go to court, providing you even get a right to sue letter from them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/16 "2019-05-01T01:35:40Z")
In what sense is “Christian” not a religious organization, but “Protestant” is? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/17 "2019-05-01T14:52:11Z")
Yeah, that sentence is kinda messy. . .I was responding to **Thudlow Boink** ’s hypothetical and was using “christian” as an adjective and “Catholic” and “Protestant” as metonyms for the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. mc ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/18 "2019-05-01T16:28:35Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Yeah, that sentence is kinda messy. . .I was responding to **Thudlow Boink** ’s hypothetical and was using “christian” as an adjective and “Catholic” and “Protestant” as metonyms for the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. The point is that there really isn’t any such thing as “the Protestant Church.” There are hundreds of Protestant denominations (e.g., Methodist, Episcopalean, various Baptists, various Lutherans, etc.), but “Protestant” is not one church, the way that the Roman Catholic Church is. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/19 "2019-05-01T17:13:29Z")
I did not realize that. Thanks for the info. The point I was trying to make before I made a mess of it, is that these exemptions are very narrow in scope. mc ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/20 "2019-05-01T19:41:49Z")
> [@Carryon](#): > > Companies can legally require you to do a lot of things, such as [. . .] shop at only union shops How would they even enforce that? It’s no longer legal, at least in the USA, to pay only in store script. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264.md?page=2)