# Is it legal for a church to discriminate potential employees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 30, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264 "2019-04-30T14:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/21 "2019-05-01T21:37:51Z")
Sorry, missed a lot in their expanded job description: - must be a member of their church - must live a “spirit-filled life” -must tithe to the church according to Malachi - must show devotion to the pastor’s vision -must adhere to biblical principles So forth and so on. Like I said, not really wanting to work at a place like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/22 "2019-05-02T00:43:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > - Military Service > - Bankruptcy or bad debts > - Military service These ones are surprising, especially the former. I could not work where I work right now if I were currently bankrupt. (And they would know, since they pulled my credit.) I assumed this would be the case with many government or financial jobs. My workplace gives veterans priority. Mind you, this is in Canada, so maybe we’re unique on this. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/23 "2019-05-02T15:46:26Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But how far does that break down? Could a Catholic school favor a Protestant applicant over a Jewish or Hindu one? Could they favor an Episcopalian over a Southern Baptist? I’d almost be willing to bet that’s unclear, and would have to be thrashed out in the courts. I think a lot of that morality clause stuff is there to make sure they don’t get a guy who drinks and smokes, and has 3 ex-wives, but is nominally Baptist because he shows up on 35 of 52 Sundays every year. And that said candidate will toe the line in terms of church-stuff. That said, I’d think a lot of that stuff would be awfully hard to actually prove in a non right-to-work state. I mean, how are you going to fire someone for cause, because they didn’t “live a “spirit-filled life””? That seems ambiguous to the point of absurdity. Same with “devotion ot the pastor’s vision”, etc… And I’d think, but am not sure, that requiring someone to tithe would be hard to enforce/mandate without just withholding 10%. And FWIW, I don’t think that Jesuit institutions “hire” Jesuits; they’re more or less assigned in a more military-style fashion than we’d think. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/24 "2019-05-02T17:32:28Z")
> [@bump](#): > > . > > I think a lot of that morality clause stuff is there to make sure they don’t get a guy who drinks and smokes, and has 3 ex-wives, but is nominally Baptist because he shows up on 35 of 52 Sundays every year. And that said candidate will toe the line in terms of church-stuff. That said, I’d think a lot of that stuff would be awfully hard to actually prove in a non right-to-work state. I mean, how are you going to fire someone for cause, because they didn’t “live a “spirit-filled life””? That seems ambiguous to the point of absurdity. Same with “devotion ot the pastor’s vision”, etc… “Right to work” states do not allow workers to be required to join/pay fees to a union. It’s not the opposite of employment-at-will. Every state except one has at will employment and people who don’t work under a contract of some sort can be fired for any reason or no reason at all- just not for an illegal reason. They can be fired because the boss doesn’t like the tie they wore today. So the employer would never need to prove the fired person was fired because he didn’t “live a spirit filled life” unless 1) he alleged that he was fired for an illegal reason (like his age) and 2) They chose to prove he was fired for the lack of a spirit -filled life in order to show it wasn’t due to his age. > [@](#): > > And FWIW, I don’t think that Jesuit institutions “hire” Jesuits; they’re more or less assigned in a more military-style fashion than we’d think. This is true not just of Jesuits but of many religious institutions - and not just Catholic ones. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/25 "2019-05-02T19:03:41Z")
I don’t think you can discriminate on religion, but you can put in a morality clause that suspiciously lines up the religion’s moral framework. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/26 "2019-05-03T03:18:44Z")
Another thing to keep in mind is if the church is small and has less than 15 employees it is exempt from the **Federal** laws against discrimination for sex, color, religion, and ethnic origin. And under 20 employee businesses are exempt from the **Federal** laws against age discrimination. [https://www.sanantonioemploymentlawblog.com/2011/05/articles/discrimination/less-than-15-or-20-employees-can-freedom-to-discriminate/](https://www.sanantonioemploymentlawblog.com/2011/05/articles/discrimination/less-than-15-or-20-employees-can-freedom-to-discriminate/) I am not sure if state discrimination laws have similar exemptions. ---
**Author:** ![betterlifethroughchemistry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/betterlifethroughchemistry/32/3094_2.png) [@betterlifethroughchemistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betterlifethroughchemistry)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/27 "2019-05-03T03:25:42Z")
Although I cannot make the general out of the specific, no, my wife has worked the last 20 years for a community church preschool and their policy is, they don’t care, they only care about qualifications, they just hired an IT person who has nothing to do with the church nor is expected to be a member, they just want the website to be functional… ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/28 "2019-05-03T10:34:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And FWIW, I don’t think that Jesuit institutions “hire” Jesuits; they’re more or less assigned in a more military-style fashion than we’d think. Jesuit universities definitely hire Jesuits when it comes to faculty. A provincial (regional Jesuit leader) couldn’t simply assign a Jesuit to a department. Jesuits in tenure track positions go through the whole tenure process. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264/29 "2019-05-06T18:49:11Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Jesuit universities definitely hire Jesuits when it comes to faculty. A provincial (regional Jesuit leader) couldn’t simply assign a Jesuit to a department. Jesuits in tenure track positions go through the whole tenure process. That’s probably just at the university level; they’re definitely assigned by the Provincial to the non-university schools in his area. Of course, there are usually only a handful of schools, so a lot of the time they go in a sort of rotation between them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-a-church-to-discriminate-potential-employees/833264.md?page=1)