I meant the outside faces.
Most craps players aren’t going to put in the hours of practice needed to consistently be able to release the dice properly. Setting the dice is only part of the process. The throw has to be done correctly as well. It’s not guaranteed that dice control will bring up a particular number; the idea of lining up the sevens is to reduce the possibility of a 7 coming up.
I’ve googled but can’t find any reliable info suggesting dice control works. There’s a lot of breathless speculation and anecdote, and there are a lot of people saying it works who are trying to sell something, but nothing reliable.
If major league pitchers can throw baseballs over 70 miles an hour, and yet control them enough to get within inches of their targeted destination, surely a major league roller could practice habits to throw well enough to avoid a 7. I’m guessing this would involve throwing at the same speed at the same angle. If this aspect could be controlled enough, then trial and error would result in figuring out which orignal positions for the dice would result in an advantage to avoid rolling a 7. Not impossible, just a whole lot of practice.
Chalk and cheese, Conan. If you throw a ball it will go one way. If you throw it a tiny bit higher, it will go a tiny bit higher. If you throw it a tiny bit faster it will go a tiny bit faster.
If you throw a dice one way it will end up on one side. If you throw it a fraction of a millimetre different, that difference will make a major difference to how it bounces when it first hits, which will make an even bigger difference on it’s next bounce, and so on. Rolling dice is a process specifically chosen for gambling because the infinitesimal differences in the throw result in totally different outcomes.
I agree that in principle, if you could throw a dice precisely enough, you could influence outcomes. I just see no evidence for the proposition based on any proper testing, and it would be such a big ask that until I see a cite that shows it to work when properly tested, I’m going to remain sceptical.
I understand, law of large numbers and all, some people are going to end up winning at craps over their lifetime, even if they don’t really have an edge. However, the documentary suggested that there were groups of people who had the ability, who got together, and who each individually ended up doing far better than average over a period of time.
It may be bunk, but I’m not willing to discount it out of hand. When you start getting multiple individuals together who can seem to do the same thing, over a period of time, I start questioning whether it is possible.
They chastise you if the dice don’t bounce off the far wall, which is covered with bulging pyramid-shaped protrusions.
Just rolling dice on a felt? Settable. Bouncing off a flat wall? Probably not settable, but I’d be willing to entertain the idea. Bouncing off an irregularly shaped wall? Good friggin’ luck.
I just don’t buy it.
OP’s question remains unanswered: Is there a rule/policy prohibiting the stickman from touching players, even if it’s only with his stick?
Good point. I’m in a hurry, so let me just throw this out for discussion:
Assualt and Battery. Any unlawful touching of another which is without justification or excuse. It is both a tort, Trogun v. Fruchtman, 58 Wis.2d 569, 207 N.W.2d 297, as well as a crime, Scruggs v. State, Ind.App., 317 N.E.2d 807, 809. The two crimes differ from each other in that battery requires physical contact of some sort (bodily injury or offensive touching), whereas assault is committed without physical contact. In most jurisdictions, statutes have created aggravated assaults and batteries, punishable as felonies, and worded in various ways.
It may be a criminal offense; unwanted touching does not actually have to cause physical damage to be wrongful.
I’d like to see how many pitchers can control which part of the baseball is touching the palm of the catcher. For example, place a dot on the ball and make that dot land in the palm predictably.
Well, again, I don’t think anyone’s claiming that they can exactly control what numbers come up (although LoRiggio called a hard 10 in the documentary and made it). The idea is to reduce the chances that a 7 will come up through the position of the numbers on the dice before throwing and controlling the velocity and trajectory of the throw.
The Nevada Gaming Commission website has a list of “all” Regulations (1.5 mb .pdf) in which I found no reference. (This link appears to be a single document containing all the individual documents on the web site listed below it.) Someone with a faster connection might search the rest of the site. (“All” the regulations appear to my untrained eye to be statutory regulations and the adminstrative regulations might be elsewhere.)
I did not check New Jersey, Michigan, Missouri, or other states in which I know gambling is currently legal.
I saw a movie where Rutger Haur played a blind samurai sword guy in a casino who smashed the place up after discovering some cheating going on…
…does that help?
1
Have a poke round using Google and you will find those groups are selling their system. Books, schools, etc. Call me Mr Cynical…
I saw the show and – despite some of the worst acting and dialogue this side of the Rutherford B. Hayes Elementary School First Grade Nutrition Pageant in those reenactments – found it quite convincing. I mean, the proof is in the pudding, isn’t it? This guy Dom makes his living by consistantly beating the dice table odds. Isn’t that proof enough? Can a casino that consistantly beats random-throw dice players make a more valid claim to an edge?
Besides, I think the nay-sayers are missing a point, namely that the dice controller need not nail every single roll, nor close to it. Random-throw craps already has odds that are only a few percentage points in the house’s favor. A controller only has to gain enough of an advantage to tip those percentage points to his side of the equation.
I’m so glad it wasn’t just me.
The proof is certainly in the pudding. On this show, did this “Dom” guy undergo a controlled test in which he rolled dice over and over under the eye of an independant scrutineer and demonstrate a statistically significant ability to roll something other than in accordance with chance?
Yes or no?
Because if the show consisted of him talking about his own abilities (real or imagined) or of select moments of play (classic selective data mining) color me unconvinced.
As to him making a living, I know two things. One, he says he makes a living out of playing craps. Two, he certainly attempts to make money out of selling books and courses on how to win at craps.
Observation: if he didn’t say One, he’d significantly diminish his chances at Two.
My name is still Mr Cynical.
Well I for one am not missing this point at all. I am just still cynical. In fact, it is classic shyster behaviour to operate in a field where 100% results are not claimed or necessary. All the better to make it hard to detect if the claimed effect is real
I’ve seen craps dealers hassle players more than once for setting dice. They claim it’s becasue they are slowing the game, but they never complain about players taking their time making bets. I got the distinct impression that setting dice was a frowned on activity, and obviously the shooter did it for a reason, but I never saw anybody make any runs doing it.
I’ve seen stick men whack players with the stick for trying to grab something off the table, never thought a thing about it.
Has it been proven that dice can be controlled when rolled on a flat even surface? I’ve always assumed they could be *, and that this was the reason the dice must bounce off the back wall. But has it ever been proven?
*Dice first show up in the Indian epic The Mahabharata. Dice control shows up shortly after.
It most certainly is not. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Well, making bets is actually part of the game. Dice-setting is not.
When the stickman slides the dice over to the shooter, it is accompanied (I’m not positive by whom) by the call, “Dice are out!”
Once that call happens, no more betting is allowed. So when some idiot starts painstakingly arranging the dice to the magical formation, it is annoying to the other players, costs the house money, and in fact does slow the game down.
I can’t stand dice-setters.
True enough. Sorry I was quoting the person I was replying to. (Always the excuses!)