# Is it legal for the IRS to politically single out associations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130 "2013-05-12T05:05:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/61 "2013-05-22T14:14:55Z")
Groups did disband. If they didn’t have to, that’s nice to know now, but it still doesn’t excuse the fact that the IRS’s actions had a chilling effect on political speech. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/62 "2013-05-22T14:19:48Z")
Again, why did they disband? Were they under the impression that they _needed_ IRS approval to exist? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/63 "2013-05-22T14:44:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Groups did disband. If they didn’t have to, that’s nice to know now, but it still doesn’t excuse the fact that the IRS’s actions had a chilling effect on political speech. Assuming they disbanded because they were denied (or did not timely receive) approval, sure. I find any after-the-fact assertions a bit suspect, though. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/64 "2013-05-22T14:52:49Z")
I agree with those who say that issues groups should be able to go right ahead and operate. I suppose someone who knows what they are talking about will explain why you’d want to have a 501c4, other than for the tax exempt provision…perhaps it is because even though they are supposed to disclose their benefactors, they don’t think anyone will actually enforce that rule? Is it the total amount an individual (or corporation) can donate to a candidate or party that this new grouping of political action committees is design to avoid? Personally, I don’t really believe anything bruited about in TV or radio ads. They are wasted on me, but I suppose the great unwashed are susceptible to those flagrantly foul ads. You’d think they would have the good sense to only run such ads on programs such as Judge Judy, or Bevis and Butthead, expecting to find their target audience there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/65 "2013-05-22T15:22:36Z")
The thing about 501©(4)s is that they _don’t_ have to disclose their donors. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/66 "2013-05-22T15:37:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Groups did disband. Which ones? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/67 "2013-05-22T15:38:55Z")
The Center for Law and Justice or somesuch conservative legal advocacy groups says it is filing suits on behalf of two Tea Party groups which disbanded, but they haven’t been named. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/68 "2013-05-22T15:43:42Z")
Perhaps the reason they disbanded was not because of any supposed harassment, but because they knew they couldn’t qualify for the status if anyone bothered to check them out. Without knowing who they were, we cannot determine the reason they disbanded. ---
**Author:** ![Bremidon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Bremidon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bremidon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/69 "2013-05-22T18:55:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Your actual point is [also wrong](http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/morning-edition/2013/05/report-irs-eyed-left-leaning-groups-too.html). To the extent that more right-leaning organizations were being scrutinized, well, there were a lot more of them filing at the time. So I followed your link, and it eventually led me to the Bloomberg source. These two quotes stood out: > [@](#): > > Tax (GDP%NPOT) agency officials told lawmakers in a briefing yesterday that 471 groups received additional scrutiny… > [@](#): > > The Internal Revenue Service, under pressure after admitting it targeted anti-tax Tea Party groups for scrutiny in recent years, also had its eye on at least three Democratic-leaning organizations seeking nonprofit status. So, 3 out of 471 were Democratic-leaning. Color me unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![Bremidon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Bremidon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bremidon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/70 "2013-05-22T18:56:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps the reason they disbanded was not because of any supposed harassment, but because they knew they couldn’t qualify for the status if anyone bothered to check them out. Without knowing who they were, we cannot determine the reason they disbanded. I suppose the lawsuits coming up might shed some light on this. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/71 "2013-05-22T18:59:54Z")
Tea Party groups were complaining for some time about this before it was discovered to be true. Individuals are complaining about being targeted as well. be interesting to see if that was also going on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/72 "2013-05-22T19:10:00Z")
> [@Bremidon](#): > > So, 3 out of 471 were Democratic-leaning. Color me unimpressed. Nice selective quoting there. ---
**Author:** ![Bremidon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Bremidon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bremidon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/73 "2013-05-23T11:51:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nice selective quoting there. Counter, if you can. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/74 "2013-05-23T11:54:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The thing about 501(c)(4)s is that they _don’t_ have to disclose their donors. [http://afjactioncampaign.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/501c4-Reporting.pdf](http://afjactioncampaign.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/501c4-Reporting.pdf) When I read the url cite, I’m wondering what they are allowed to do that doesn’t trigger the requirement to publish the donors. In every case, major donors have to be reported to the IRS, but unless those other things are triggered (and I don’t see the point of the organization if they don’t do some of those things) the organization doesn’t have to publish the list. What a strange, twisted set of rules we have. The congress must be so proud of the mess they have made. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130/75 "2013-05-23T12:55:10Z")
> [@Bremidon](#): > > Counter, if you can. Counter what? We don’t know how many left-leaning organizations were targeted, but we do know that this was exclusively a witchhunt for tea party groups. > [@crucible](#): > > [http://afjactioncampaign.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/501c4-Reporting.pdf](http://afjactioncampaign.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/501c4-Reporting.pdf) > > When I read the url cite, I’m wondering what they are allowed to do that doesn’t trigger the requirement to publish the donors. > > In every case, major donors have to be reported to the IRS, but unless those other things are triggered (and I don’t see the point of the organization if they don’t do some of those things) the organization doesn’t have to publish the list. > > What a strange, twisted set of rules we have. The congress must be so proud of the mess they have made. Congress didn’t make this mess. Well, not all of it. SCOTUS helped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-for-the-irs-to-politically-single-out-associations/658130.md?page=3)