# Is it legal to ask for ID with debit card? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831 "2014-03-16T13:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/21 "2014-03-16T23:01:56Z")
**md2000** hit the nail on the head. It’s against the standard Visa / MC merchant agreement to allow the merchant to ask for ID. They make money by people using their cards & they want it as easy as possible for people to use their cards; having to carry/get out other ID violates that principle. > [@Fleetwood](#): > > Ask your boss. > If company policy says verify ID, tell the customer to provide some or screw. Then Visa will tell you to change your policy or stop taking their cards (technically they’ll revoke your privilege to take their cards). I’ve seen it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/22 "2014-03-16T23:10:48Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > **md2000** hit the nail on the head. It’s against the standard Visa / MC merchant agreement to allow the merchant to ask for ID. They make money by people using their cards & they want it as easy as possible for people to use their cards; having to carry/get out other ID violates that principle. That’s true for _signed_ cards. But the question in the OP was specifically about someone presenting an _unsigned_ card. In that case, the Visa merchant agreement specifically says that the merchant should ask for ID and ask the customer to sign the card. [PDF cite](https://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf). (See page 33.) ---
**Author:** ![dflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dflower/32/3270_2.png) [@dflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dflower)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/23 "2014-03-17T14:14:07Z")
Dewey Finn thanks so much for that cite. I have never been trained by my manager or owner. One of the other workers trained me when I started this job. None of us were given this info. Ah well that is working in a low pay retail job. Thanks all for your help. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/24 "2014-03-17T14:27:28Z")
You’re welcome. I don’t know what Mastercard’s merchant agreement says, but I’ll bet it’s similar. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/25 "2014-03-17T16:37:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Google isn’t helping me find a cite, but IIRC in the UK a merchant is supposed to reject cards without a signature. ‘See ID’ or similar invalidates the card. It’s the same here in the USA. Anything except your signature invalidates the card. Cards have so many features to prevent fraud; being able to turn your card on and off, text notification of purchases, throwaway numbers for online purchases, you name it. The New York Times had a great article on the safeguards available a couple of weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/26 "2014-03-17T16:46:32Z")
Legal advice is best suited to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/27 "2014-03-17T17:14:37Z")
It seems to me to be dangerous to let someone change your store policy on financial security by badgering you with vague threats of how you’re breaking the law. Even if I was 90% convinced that the person was right, I think in that case I’d 1. put on my fakey retail smile, 2. give a totally insincere apology for the inconvenience, and 3. tell them what our store policy was. If they argued, I’d repeat steps 1-3, with just enough variations in my language to keep from being blatantly rude, until they got bored and left. Sure, I might promise to check with my manager, and I might say that I’d pass along their warning of dire legal consequences, and I might commiserate with them when they complain about what a pile of crap the store policy is–but I’d do my best not to budge an inch. ---
**Author:** ![HipGnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HipGnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HipGnosis)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/28 "2014-03-17T17:32:46Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > First it has nothing to do with illegal, there is no violation in law for asking to see an ID. If someone told me it was illegal to ask for ID, my snap response would be 'I’m pretty sure you’re user agreement doesn’t invalidate my First Amendment rights. He is welcome to refuse to show ID and you are welcome to refuse service > > Second if he is using it as a debit card he is correct that you don’t need to see an ID, that is because in order to use it as a debit card the user has to enter the correct PIN, the debit card issuer usually considers this sufficient protection against fraud. > > If the debit card has the logo of an accepted credit card, it can be used as a credit card. If it is used as a credit card the user and vendor must abide by the credit card issuers contracts. All major credit cards allow you to ask for ID as protection against fraud if the signatures don’t match. If the signature does match you shouldn’t be asking for ID. This is kinda a nuisance with most POS systems because you run a card before you see their signature, the credit card companies expect you to back out the sale if you suspect fraud. > > As to signatures, the signature must match the signature on the card. If the signature line says ‘see ID’ and they sign the card ‘see ID’ and that sufficiently matches you don’t need to ask for an ID. I agree with your first point. Your second point contradicts the first and the third contradicts your second… ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/29 "2014-03-17T17:38:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It seems to me to be dangerous to let someone change your store policy on financial security by badgering you with vague threats of how you’re breaking the law. Even if I was 90% convinced that the person was right, I think in that case I’d > > 1. put on my fakey retail smile, > 2. give a totally insincere apology for the inconvenience, and > 3. tell them what our store policy was. > > If they argued, I’d repeat steps 1-3, with just enough variations in my language to keep from being blatantly rude, until they got bored and left. > > Sure, I might promise to check with my manager, and I might say that I’d pass along their warning of dire legal consequences, and I might commiserate with them when they complain about what a pile of crap the store policy is–but I’d do my best not to budge an inch. Nope, you say “Sorry, you’d have to talk to my boss, this is what they tell me to do” This deflects the persons anger from you to me. I assure you, as ‘the boss’ I’m much, much better at handling this then my cashiers. As you can see from my posts above, I’m much quicker to know the terms of my merchant agreement than they are or to tell them that their card isn’t valid to begin with, which they probably didn’t know. Hell, at that point all they have to do is sign the card then sign the paper. I’ve also got no problem cancelling the sale if I start getting the feeling they’re trying to tricking me into using a stolen card or one they don’t have permission to use. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/30 "2014-03-17T17:43:04Z")
There’s a lot of things in the merchant agreement that is routinely violated by small business. Asking for ID, requiring a minimum purchase for credit cards, etc. This is assuming that the particular merchant doesn’t have a different merchant agreement. Your only recourse is to contact the credit card issuing company and persuade them to take action against the business. I’m thinking that the business probably generates more revenue for the credit card company that you do with your purchase volume - depending on who you are. So good luck! I have refused to show ID with my credit card purchase for a couple reasons… [ul] [li]The principle of it all[/li][li]I’d already used the point of sale machine and the transaction was already processed. It seemed pretty stupid to check ID afterwards[/li][li]The cashier asked me to see it after I’d put my card back in my wallet and back in my pocket. [/li][/ul] I simply say that I am not required to provide ID as my card is properly signed. Essentially, I’m challenging them to refuse the sale. They’ve already rung and bagged my items. If they will not back down, they can cancel the sale, and I’m willing to walk. Of course, I’ll ask to speak to a manager and hold up the line until I do. On the occasion where the manager is called, every single time the manager has said to let the transaction process through without ID. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/31 "2014-03-17T17:57:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > There’s a lot of things in the merchant agreement that is routinely violated by small business. Asking for ID, requiring a minimum purchase for credit cards, etc. This is assuming that the particular merchant doesn’t have a different merchant agreement. > > Your only recourse is to contact the credit card issuing company and persuade them to take action against the business. I’m thinking that the business probably generates more revenue for the credit card company that you do with your purchase volume - depending on who you are. So good luck! > > I have refused to show ID with my credit card purchase for a couple reasons… > [ul] > [li]The principle of it all[/li][li]I’d already used the point of sale machine and the transaction was already processed. It seemed pretty stupid to check ID afterwards[/li][li]The cashier asked me to see it after I’d put my card back in my wallet and back in my pocket. [/li][/ul] > I simply say that I am not required to provide ID as my card is properly signed. Essentially, I’m challenging them to refuse the sale. They’ve already rung and bagged my items. If they will not back down, they can cancel the sale, and I’m willing to walk. Of course, I’ll ask to speak to a manager and hold up the line until I do. On the occasion where the manager is called, every single time the manager has said to let the transaction process through without ID. You’re wrong on a handful of points here and kinda being a jerk about it. It’s not the cashiers fault, don’t make it their problem. The merchant IS allowed to have a minimum transaction fee, that’s no longer in the merchant agreement. The merchant IS allowed to ask for an ID, just not as a matter of course. They can ask for an ID even with a signed card under certain circumstances and maybe you met them and you refuse to show it to them ‘because you already put it away’, I might ask you to produce it anyways. When someone get sketchy like that, I start to wonder what they’re hiding and I’ll (as a ‘cashier’) stand my ground. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/32 "2014-03-17T17:57:45Z")
From how I understand it, if someone writes ‘CID’ or ‘See ID’ on the credit card their signature better match what they sign on the slip (or e-slip). Meaning they sign the slip CID (or likewise matching the CC signature). There is no responsibility given to you (as a merchant) other to see that the signatures match and if you accept a signature vastly different from what is written on the signature line that casts the fault on you. CID on the signature line of a CC means nothing but the person’s signature - if it doesn’t match then the risk is yours. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/33 "2014-03-17T18:03:23Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > From how I understand it, if someone writes ‘CID’ or ‘See ID’ on the credit card their signature better match what they sign on the slip (or e-slip). Meaning they sign the slip CID (or likewise matching the CC signature). There is no responsibility given to you (as a merchant) other to see that the signatures match and if you accept a signature vastly different from what is written on the signature line that casts the fault on you. > > CID on the signature line of a CC means nothing but the person’s signature - if it doesn’t match then the risk is yours. IIRC, any merchant that accepts a transaction using a card with no signature is liable for any fraudulent use. The merchant agreements require a signature on their cards. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/34 "2014-03-17T18:04:41Z")
@Bone From the Visa Merchant Agreement “Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID except in the specific circumstances discussed in this guide, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/35 "2014-03-17T18:10:20Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > IIRC, any merchant that accepts a transaction using a card with no signature is liable for any fraudulent use. The merchant agreements require a signature on their cards. I’m not talking about no signature, but if the card holder has signed their card CID, or See ID or likewise, that is their signature. Aside: My personal signature does not bear any resemblance to my name nor is it legally required to do so- but it is my legal signature. Who am I to question someone elses signature if any consistent signature is legally accepted and all that is required that they match. ‘CID’ signed on back of the card does not look like ‘John J Smith’ written on the slip. CID becomes their legal signature in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/36 "2014-03-17T18:23:38Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > @Bone > From the Visa Merchant Agreement “Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID except in the specific circumstances discussed in this guide, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance” Exactly. They can ask and I can refuse. Sale should proceed. Right? I’m not rude to the cashier in any way. I tell them politely and clearly that I’m not providing ID. If they say some form of, “I can’t process the sale without ID”, then I say, “I think you can, but if you’re not comfortable then please ask for your manager, I’ll wait.” If the manager decides that they don’t want the sale, that’s fine with me. It’s never happened so far. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/37 "2014-03-17T18:33:31Z")
What principle are you standing up for, exactly, when you inconvenience yourself, the cashier, and anyone who may be in line behind you in that way? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/38 "2014-03-17T18:34:35Z")
That I don’t have to show my ID for the sale to proceed and that asking for ID after the fact is pointless and inconvenient to the customer. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/39 "2014-03-17T19:11:42Z")
Pointless aside: Until a couple of years ago, I worked in the hotel business. For about two years, I worked as the night auditor at a budget motel just off interstate 95, and we got more than our share of sketchy characters. As part of the check-in policy, potential guests were required to present ID before they could book a room. More than once, roadside attorneys tried to school me on merchant agreements, and how I couldn’t ask them for ID in order for them to use their credit/debit cards. I always politely agreed, but pointed out that I could and would require an ID before I’d rent a room. If it happened that the ID didn’t match the method of payment, well… No, I can’t accept that card. And yes, you are free to consult with your attorney or with the police if you believe that the hotel’s policy is illegal or discriminatory. (Hint: It’s not. And the policy is in place for everyone, whether they’re paying cash, paying with a card, or using guest reward points to pay for the stay. In the hotel business, the merchant entrusts the guest with a room valued at many thousands of dollars, for a very small fraction of the actual cost of repairing or replacing the durable goods in that room. The merchant needs to know that the guest is of legal age to sign an enforceable contract - the registration card, which details what happens if damage occurs to the room - and exactly whom is taking on that responsibility. And yes, in everything from a Hilton flagship hotel to a roadside Econolodge, I’ve had to present bills for malicious or negiligent damage. People are GROSS, y’all!) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831/40 "2014-03-17T19:30:25Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’ll (as a ‘cashier’) stand my ground. You shoot the customer!?!:eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-ask-for-id-with-debit-card/683831.md?page=3)