# Is it legal to booby-trap your own property? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 22, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716 "2003-02-22T03:46:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/41 "2003-02-23T01:28:44Z")
**Q.E.D.** I don’t think you get off the hook, you said: > [@](#): > > A spring gun, as previously stated, lacks judgement, and cannot tell an attempted rapist from a curious child, for instance. It is this lack of discrimination that makes a spring gun illegal. This isn’t entirely right either. The spring gun may or may not be illegal depending on who it kills, it isn’t illegal _because_ of it’s inability to distinguish between child and rapist, but it may give rise to civil liability if it kills the wrong person. A fine distinction, but I’m not going down without a fight on this one! 🙂 Free the Spring Guns! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/42 "2003-02-23T01:47:38Z")
I’ll concede your distinction, however, I still believe you’d have a difficult time proving that your spring gun killed “…[an] intruder [who] is, in fact, one whose intrusion involves danger of life and limb of the occupants of the dwelling place or is for the purpose of committing certain serious crimes…” in a court of law. Of course, as the defendant, the burden of proof is not on you, but rather on the prosection. Nevertheless, I don’t think it would be terribly difficult for the prosectuting attourney to demonstrate that there should be reasonable doubt that the intruder may have entered your premises for purposes that mayb not have intended bodily harm to you. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/43 "2003-02-23T02:37:03Z")
If I’m understanding this correctly, guard dogs are permitted because they themselves give warning. Is a ‘Beware of the dog’ sign required? Does such a sign have to name the specific type of creature or danger involved? I’m wondering whether you could put ‘Beware of Dangerous Animals’ signs on your four-metre-tall chain-link fence, then, when the intruders are expecting dogs, have them encounter your bull moose in rut and/or your moat filled with highly-visible _candiru_ fish and pirahnas… > [@](#): > > _ **Achernar** said:_ > Heh, that’s a good story. What if you put a paint bomb? Then you could just tell the cops to look for a very green person. 🙂 That’s what happens with those dye-filled clothing tags, isn’t it? The thief tries to remove them so they don’t set off the detector at the store entrance, they break, and cover thief and merchandise with dye… ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/44 "2003-02-23T02:45:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sunspace \* > \*\*, then, when the intruders are expecting dogs, have them encounter your bull moose in rut and/or your moat filled with highly-visible _candiru_ fish and pirahnas… > \*\* Or [this guy](http://www.thebigzoo.com/animals/zoom/Papio_hamadryas_001.asp)… ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/45 "2003-02-23T03:30:30Z")
How highly visible can a _candiru_ fish be, anyway? They’re only, what, a couple centimeters long? Or has someone bred a giant version? (Eek!) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/46 "2003-02-23T03:32:30Z")
Aren’t _candiru_ fish the ones that swim up your… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![CasperQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@CasperQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CasperQ)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/47 "2003-02-23T06:20:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \ ***Re: Texas laws. I thought I heard that a person could shoot another person, even if the latter is fleeing, to protect his property _at night_. I seem to remember a repo man was killed when the owner shot him as he was driving away, and the man was not charged with murder. Is this true?** Apologies for continuing the Texas hijack, but yes, this is true - an owner shot a repo driver as he was driving away and was not charged with murder. But he could have been… IIRC (IAA Texas CHL holder, but can’t find the list) I am allowed by law to shoot anyone causing or threatening to cause bodily harm to myself, to someone posing imminent lethal intent to someone else (the neighbor choking his wife in the driveway), or to prevent the loss of items of significant or irreplacable value. Meaning, if the bauble grandma left me in her will is in the burglar’s possession while climbing out my window, I CAN shoot him/her. Most instructors advise, however, that this can get sticky legally since the definition is so subjective, and not to shoot unless you feel threatened. My instructor said, “if he’s got one foot in and one foot out, shoot him. As far as you know he’s coming back IN to kill you.” Only in Texas… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/48 "2003-02-23T08:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tony Montana \* > \*\*The bomb itself would be illegal…even if its on your own property \*\* Unless you have a permit for destructive devices ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/49 "2003-02-23T16:16:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*Unless you have a permit for destructive devices \*\* Wha? where/how would I go aboot getting such a thing? Up here I worked packing dy-no-mite once. Of course there was a licensed powderman on scene at all times. Also they keep close records of every “stick” (actually they looked like a giant loaf of sausage,only pink) of dynomite. ---
**Author:** ![Monkeypants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Monkeypants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monkeypants)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/50 "2003-02-26T14:43:35Z")
Hey, look. [http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-booby25.html](http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-booby25.html) ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/51 "2003-02-26T16:07:19Z")
Here is my local guy: Posted on Wed, Jul. 31, 2002 story: Pacific Grove booby-trapper known for late-night remodeling By ALEX FRIEDRICH [afriedrich@montereyherald.com](mailto:afriedrich@montereyherald.com) “The Pacific Grove man arrested for booby-trapping his walkway and building a small home arsenal was a recluse known to his neighbors mostly for working on his aging apartment house at odd hours of the night.” rest of story: [http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/3774932.htm](http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/3774932.htm) ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/52 "2003-02-26T16:27:18Z")
Darn! **Monkeypants** beat me to the cite I wanted to use! I’m sure the legality of such things vary by jurisdiction, but I’m guessing that, universally, deadly force is only legally applicable when there is a human deciding when its use is necessary. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\*The issue, **Burner** is what force you would be allowed to use _if you were there_. You do not have a right to use deadly force to protect property like a safe. \*\* Uh, you do here in Texas. > [@](#): > > _Texas Penal Code, Sec. 9.42. - “Deadly Force to Protect Property”_ > \*\*A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: > ~ ~ (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and > ~ ~ (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: > ~ ~ ~ (A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or > ~ ~ ~ (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and > ~ ~ (3) he reasonably believes that: > ~ ~ ~ (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or > ~ ~ ~ (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. \*\* FYI, section 9.41 refers to taking back what is yours after someone has taken it from you using force, threat, or fraud. I have heard of this most commonly used to refer to break-ins and theft that occur at night. There was a case I remember a few years ago where a construction contractor-type guy heard someone breaking into his truck (presumably to steal his valuable power tools) in the wee hours of the morning, and shot the thief dead through the back windscreen with a rifle as the thief was making good his escape in the stolen vehicle. This kinda thing had repo-men up in arms (literally) because they often attempt to reposess vehicles a night or during the early morning hours (after or prior to commute time is when the whereabouts of the vehicle are more predictable). I remember at least one other case where a repo-man had been shot and killed in the pre-dawn hours by a guy who _thought_ he was being robbed. The TV news crew was interviewing another repo-man who was clearly uncomfortable about the whole thing, but was willing to show them his newly-acquired bullet-proof vest. Other than by the presence of a tow truck emblazoned with a company logo, how would a property owner be expected to know when his car was being reposessed as opposed to stolen? ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/53 "2003-02-26T22:09:09Z")
Tony Sorry, I forgot about this post after not finding a good answer about DD. These guys talk about such things. [http://www.37mm.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.pl](http://www.37mm.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.pl) Seems like they are playing buy the rules. On the edge perhaps, but within the legal limits. Play with some of this stuff in your frnt yard and nobody will be taking aim at your house 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/54 "2003-02-26T22:14:34Z")
HI **psiekier** it may be that there is no criminal liability in TX under the penal code, there could still be civil liability. It is a good point, of course, to mention that in any legal discussion there is always the possibility that there will be variations from state to state etc. We were really just discussing what the implications of the Restatement were, but the TX information is very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Rob\_V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Rob\_V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rob_V)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/55 "2003-02-26T23:17:27Z")
So, have I got this right: I have to ask the intruder what his intentions are, or infer them, before I shoot his ass? Any California Dopers care to fill me in on Ca. statute? I tell ya what, if someone shows up INSIDE MY HOUSE in the middle of the night, if I get to my gun before he does, his ass is grass. Am I not in the right to assume someone breaking and entering has nefarious intent? Whether he ACTUALLY HAS intent to harm me, I would think I’d have no trouble defending myself in court with the “I felt I was in imminent danger for my life” defense. I’d really like to know.😕 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/56 "2003-02-26T23:36:43Z")
I think you’re correct on the necessity of the human deciding when and when not to use deadly force. Texas Penal Code 9.44, Use of Device to Protect Property: The justification afforded by Sections 9.41 and 9.43 applies to the use of a device land or tangiable, movable property if: (1) The device is not designed to cause, or known by the actor to create a substantial risk of causing death or serious bodily injury, and (2) use of the device is reasonable under all the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be when he install the device. So defending the safe with a knife or club may be legal, but rigging a spring gun to it probably isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/57 "2003-02-27T00:20:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rob V \* > \*\*So, have I got this right: I have to ask the intruder what his intentions are, or infer them, before I shoot his ass? > \*\* Excellent idea. Based on my understanding of the law and what seems to be the consensus of this thread, if the intruder is just a burglar and you shoot him, you could be prosecuted. If, say, you see him before he sees you and you cannot determine his intent prior to shooting him, that could also lead to prosecution. Or you may not be prosecuted at all. But just because someone has invaded your home does not necessarily give you the right to shoot him. ---
**Author:** ![CasperQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@CasperQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CasperQ)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/58 "2003-02-27T03:06:19Z")
Except in Texas. Y’all come back now, y’hear? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/59 "2003-02-27T05:53:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sleeping \* > \*\*Already did. Found nothing. > > However, one Stella award presents a similar situation: > “Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn’t re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation, and Mr.Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. He sued the homeowner’s insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of $500,000.” > But the veracity of this is undetermined \*\* False urban legend, says [snopes](http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716/60 "2003-02-28T04:04:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*[http://www.37mm.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.pl](http://www.37mm.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.pl) > Play with some of this stuff in your frnt yard and nobody will be taking aim at your house 🙂 \*\* Thanks **B & I** I know what my next purchase is gonna be now… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-booby-trap-your-own-property/156716.md?page=4)