# Is it legal to deplane passangers before the prop stops? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285 "2011-12-06T18:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/1 "2011-12-06T18:49:35Z")
I’ve been reading about a tragedy this past weekend in Dallas. A woman had gone up in a plane to see Christmas lights. After deplaning, she walked right into the prop. The obvious question is why anyone is allowed to deplane when the prop is moving? Isn’t that an unnecessary risk? Helicopters are even worse. I’ve seen news footage of people walking stooped over under the blades and avoiding the rotor at the back. Are there any regulations or laws about when someone can deplane? Is a five minute wait while the prop stops reasonable before opening the door? > [@](#): > > She was injured when she walked in front of the still-spinning propeller. > > The propeller’s blades cut into Scruggs’ flesh, lopping off one of her hands and also causing shoulder, head and brain injuries, The Associated Press reported. [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/model-hand-sliced-walks-plane-propeller-suffered-head-brain-injuries-article-1.987226?localLinksEnabled=false](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/model-hand-sliced-walks-plane-propeller-suffered-head-brain-injuries-article-1.987226?localLinksEnabled=false) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/2 "2011-12-06T18:59:13Z")
No specific regulations as such. Anyone who operates small airplanes should be very cautious about clueless pax & running engines. Loading or unloading passengers with an engine running is not IMO \*per se \*negligent, but it’s taking a big risk. Without knowing more about what sort of airplane, who the pilot was, was this afriend or a commercial operations, what time of day, etc., there’s not much more to say. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/3 "2011-12-06T19:07:14Z")
It would be impossible for helicopters because a lot of the time they are dropping you off on surfaces that they can’t land on. For small planes, I would say 99% of the times I ride the engine is shut off and the prop is stopped, it only takes about 5 seconds and it seems to be more for noise than anything. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/4 "2011-12-06T19:10:10Z")
This article says it was a small plane. Do small planes usually drop off passengers and then taxi to the hanger? Is that why they aren’t shut down when people deplane? > [@](#): > > was exiting a two-seater plane in McKinney, Texas, on Saturday after flying around Dallas to see Christmas lights when the accident occurred. [http://www.katv.com/story/16172812/model-lauren-scruggs-loses-hand-in-plane-propeller-accident-slowly-recovering](http://www.katv.com/story/16172812/model-lauren-scruggs-loses-hand-in-plane-propeller-accident-slowly-recovering) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/5 "2011-12-06T19:15:48Z")
In the '70s I flew on a small turboprop. (I’ve been on turboprops since then, of course; but this one was like Turbo Commander-sized.) We de-planed with the engines running. Either the ground crew or the cabin attendants made sure everyone walked straight away from the aircraft. With General Aviation aircraft, it’s somewhat common for someone to enter or leave an airplane while the engine is running. For example, a flight instructor might get out of the plane and send a student on his solo without having the student shut down. Or he might have the student start the plane while he goes to relieve himself or something, and board with the engine running. With jets, including turboprops, you count the number of times the engine is started and shut down – a ‘cycle’. Maintenance is partly based on the number of cycles an engine goes through, so it behooves the operator not to shut down if the stop will be very short. OTOH, when I fly Horizon Air, they do shut down the engines on their Dash-8s (or Q200/Q400s, whatever they’re called now). Unlike the airplane I flew in in the '70s, the hatch is forward of the engines and the passengers are closer to the spinning prop. That might have something to do with it. As for helicopters, I do duck when approaching or leaving one that is running. The rotor is much higher than my head, so there is little danger if I stand upright. But if the helicopter has landed on a slope, the uphill rotor will be closer to the ground – and your head. Better to walk downhill. Also, a sudden gust can dip a rotor blade. I’ll keep my head down. In either an airplane or a helicopter, passengers should be instructed to walk straight away from (i.e., perpendicular to) the aircraft. Do not go aft with a helicopter, and do not go forward with an airplane. Walk straight away. FWIW I avoid the propeller arc of even parked airplanes, and tail rotors of parked helicopters. You never know if there’s an invisible man with his finger on the switch. Obviously you have to turn the tail rotor or feel the prop during the preflight inspection, but generally I remember an old (1970s) FAA safety poster depicting a cartoon of a man being dismembered by a propeller: _A prop on the loose Can cook your goose!_ ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/6 "2011-12-06T20:05:16Z")
And if you don’t care to sound like a midget from a bad '70s TV series you can also say “disembark.” This is one of the things I like about flying with non-US based carriers: the cabin crew speaks better English. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/7 "2011-12-06T20:25:22Z")
‘Disembark’ sounds a bit stuffy for a Cessna. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/8 "2011-12-06T23:02:23Z")
I fly a Cessna 172 and I would never allow a passenger to exit the plane while the engine is running. Additionally I always instruct passengers to approach the plane from the rear. This is not the law but I think it’s good practice. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/9 "2011-12-07T01:55:30Z")
I once took a charter on a 5 place twin Cessna. We got on from the right side (had to climb onto the wing) and the pilot left the left side engine running while the four of us climbed in. I sat in the copilot seat. I imagine we deplaned (or disembarked if you are a pedant) in the same way, but I no longer remember that. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/10 "2011-12-07T02:05:14Z")
I had a good friend in Atlanta who gave bi-plane rides at the local airport. He was stationed out an eatery there. I would help out as ground crew and pre-flight the passengers and escort them to the bi-plane. We would do “hot swaps” with the prop turning to maximize turn around time. During the pre-flight I would explain to the passenger what to expect, what not to touch in the cockpit and give very clear instructions on how to walk out to the plane and how to enter and exit the cockpit. I also explained very carefully that the prop would be turning and it would kill them if they came in contact with it. You wouldn’t believe how many simply ignored what I told them and as soon as the plane touched down would start heading out there without a clue for what was happening around them. I finally got to the point, I would stand right next to them and then lead them out with my hand on their arm, and of course another crew member would escort the returning passenger. It seems that no matter how much warning you give to someone, some people are hell bent on killing themselves out of stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/11 "2011-12-07T02:38:43Z")
I’ve dropped people off before without shutting it down. I suppose if it wasn’t a pilot involved I’d remind the person not to touch the whirring thingy up front. And I’d probably shut it down at night regardless because the prop is virtually invisible then. Giving it some thought, this was only done back in the days of the generator which didn’t charge the battery well at low RPM. Alternators have made that problem go away. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/12 "2011-12-07T03:09:53Z")
I have a vague memory of an incident in the 1980’s where a commuter airline normally kept the engine away from the cabin door running while the plane was on the ground, to keep the power on. They ended that when a kid getting off the plane ran around to the other side, right into the spinning propeller. _Disclosure: I can’t remember the airport or the airline, so I can’t verify it, and may, in fact, simply be repeating an urban myth._ ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/13 "2011-12-07T04:24:13Z")
The article I saw mentions that it is a Cessna 310, and that the passenger exits (from the rear seat area, I gather) by stepping out onto the wing. The article _doesn’t_ point out that this is a twin-engine plane, with the engines thus on the wings. So that puts the exiting passenger _very_ close to the props! I’d certainly have been nervous about that! I wouldn’t have worried so much if it was a single-engine. Then at least the exiting passenger is not so close to the prop. I read a cautionary story once (long ago) about a guy who hand-cranked an old single-engine prop, then as soon as it was going, he immediately forgot that there was a spinning propeller right in front of him, whereupon he stepped forward to remove the chock from the wheel. Mistakes like that never end well. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/14 "2011-12-07T06:13:15Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I have a vague memory of an incident in the 1980’s where a commuter airline normally kept the engine away from the cabin door running while the plane was on the ground, to keep the power on. They ended that when a kid getting off the plane ran around to the other side, right into the spinning propeller. > > _Disclosure: I can’t remember the airport or the airline, so I can’t verify it, and may, in fact, simply be repeating an urban myth._ Not the case you remember, but [here](http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/jadxw1zgsquiwxqmh0hymzeg1/D12072011120000.pdf)’s the factual report for a 2001 case where a ramp agent died as a result of inattention, possibly aggravated by symptoms of hyperthyroidism (improperly medicated) and extreme heat: > [@](#): > > The ramp agent removed the nose landing gear chocks and tossed them to the right side of the airplane. The captain signaled that he was ready to taxi, the marshaller signaled a go-ahead, and the airplane began to move forward. Both the marshaller and the ramp agent were in front of the accident > airplane when they noticed that the chocks had landed in the path of the right main landing gear. > The marshaller signaled the captain to stop the airplane, but before the captain could shut the engines down, the ramp agent attempted to remove the chocks. As the ramp agent approached the chocks, the marshaller and a coworker yelled at him to stop, but he did not stop and was fatally struck by the right engine’s propellers. Horrible way to die. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/15 "2011-12-07T07:09:08Z")
An Australian golfer who had finished second in the Masters in 1980 lost his arm after walking into the propeller of a Cessna in 1983. [Jack Newton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Newton) ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/16 "2011-12-07T09:47:29Z")
Is this an easy mistake to make for the average person? Would it be obvious to the average Joe that “walking into this spinning metal thing” would likely lead to pain and death, or is it more subtle? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/17 "2011-12-07T12:25:39Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Is this an easy mistake to make for the average person? Would it be obvious to the average Joe that “walking into this spinning metal thing” would likely lead to pain and death, or is it more subtle? If the prop is spinning fast it can be hard to see that the blades are there at all, although the noise and wind ought to clue you in. I quite regularly fly with Flybe, who use mainly [Dash 8s](http://www.flickr.com/photos/sohvimus/1267325610/in/set-72157602102270020). I’m pretty sure the props are usually spinning when the passengers get off. Flight crew set up rope barriers to fence off the dangerous area before allowing passengers off, and stand at the bottom of the steps to make sure people walk the right way. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/18 "2011-12-07T12:40:11Z")
I don’t work with planes, but I am friends with people who do. I’ve been told that, on occasion, folks will even get “hypnotized” by the spinning blade, basically spacing out if they look at it for too long. I’m guessing it has to do with the strobe effect, from the blades rapidly blocking and unblocking your view of whatever is on the other side of them. As a random bit of trivia, many helicopters have lights on the edges of their rotor blades pretty much to help people see where they are, especially at night. Makes for some cool views. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/19 "2011-12-07T14:58:10Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Is this an easy mistake to make for the average person? Would it be obvious to the average Joe that “walking into this spinning metal thing” would likely lead to pain and death, or is it more subtle? The article linked in the OP states the time as ‘Saturday night’, so I assume the spinning metal thing was not very visible. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285/20 "2011-12-07T15:04:43Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > And if you don’t care to sound like a midget from a bad '70s TV series you can also say “disembark.” This is one of the things I like about flying with non-US based carriers: the cabin crew speaks better English. Isn’t alighting the opposite of boarding? Why do we need a special term just for planes? > [@Mops](#): > > The article linked in the OP states the time as ‘Saturday night’, so I assume the spinning metal thing was not very visible. Still, we all know not to reach under a lawn mower even though you can’t see the blades. That loud noise it’s making ought to be some kind of clue. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-deplane-passangers-before-the-prop-stops/605285.md?page=2)