# Is it legal to fire employees for not getting a flu shot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191 "2012-11-26T19:52:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/81 "2013-01-04T14:57:23Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yes, I agree that firing someone for not getting a flu shot is appropriate. You can have a religious exemption to it all you want, you don’t have a right to work in the healthcare field. If your religion prevents you from getting vaccines, then don’t work in fields where you might be a disease vector. Exactly. And I would like to know just how “religious” these people’s objections actually are. I suspect that the vast majority of people raising hell about vaccines are doing so because of their own _personal_ reasons, which have _nothing at all_ to do with any church teachings. Betcha those nurses take antibiotics for infections and would have no issue with taking chemotherapy drugs if they got cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/82 "2013-01-04T14:59:27Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Exactly. And I would like to know just how “religious” these people’s objections actually are. How would anyone go about ascertaining that, though ? ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/83 "2013-01-04T15:21:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > How would anyone go about ascertaining that, though ? I think that person meant, the “holy books” of most religions predate vaccination and therefore can’t have forbidden it. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/84 "2013-01-04T15:25:47Z")
I think you should have to prove that your religion has an prohibition on vaccines. You can’t just cry “religious oppression” because of something you’ve made up in your head and decide is your religion. There is no personal objection exemption in the law they are quoting that she is claiming protects her job. She is claiming a religious exemption, so she should have the burden of proving that it is religious in nature. And anyway, I don’t really cry for a nurse who doesn’t believe in vaccines losing her job. That should basically be a prerequisite for being a nurse, or a doctor, or anyone in the medical community. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/85 "2013-01-04T16:16:05Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I think you should have to prove that your religion has an prohibition on vaccines. You can’t just cry “religious oppression” because of something you’ve made up in your head and decide is your religion. There is no personal objection exemption in the law they are quoting that she is claiming protects her job. She is claiming a religious exemption, so she should have the burden of proving that it is religious in nature. That’s what I meant, yes. There are some folks who adhere to religions that prohibit certain types of medical interventions, and they have a valid claim to “religious objections”. But your average Christian American doesn’t have any issue with surgery or X-rays or transplants - why are they pointing to the Bible to get out of a flu shot? It doesn’t make any sense, and I think they need to be called on it. I am not saying that people don’t have the right to refuse a vaccine for their own reasons. Of course they do. But they **can’t** claim religious discrimination when they’re fired from their healthcare job because they won’t get the shot. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > And anyway, I don’t really cry for a nurse who doesn’t believe in vaccines losing her job. That should basically be a prerequisite for being a nurse, or a doctor, or anyone in the medical community. Agreed. Putting aside the fact that it’s a health risk for the patients, it’s another reason I’m irritated by these “religious” objections. Why is she giving out vaccines to others if she’s opposed to the procedure on religious grounds? ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/86 "2013-01-04T17:52:19Z")
> [@Danger-Mouse](#): > > and actually, after a simple Google search, increases your chances of getting the flu by many accounts. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Simply not true. Getting the flu vaccine does not increase our ink of getting the flu. Unless you’ve done a simple Google search recently.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/87 "2013-01-09T03:08:12Z")
@ those saying medical workers should be required to get it - [Nurse With No Flu Shot Fired For Refusing To Wear A Mask To Work](http://www.inquisitr.com/473963/nurse-with-no-flu-shot-fired-for-refusing-to-wear-a-mask-to-work/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/88 "2013-01-09T03:37:41Z")
Is that supposed to convince us otherwise? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/89 "2013-01-09T04:53:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is that supposed to convince us otherwise? :dubious: Yeah, agreed…this ‘nurse’ isn’t convinced that a mask would prevent the passage of the flu virus? Admittedly she is a reception nurse (a ‘holistic nurse’ who has ‘spiritual and religious reasons not to have those toxins in’ her body :p). Basically, she needs to find a new line of work, or go to work for some holistic healer pedaling crystals and homeopathic cures somewhere…hopefully somewhere in a flu free area. ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/90 "2013-01-09T05:41:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is that supposed to convince us otherwise? :dubious: No, just a relevant piece of news. I’m in favour of flu shots. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/91 "2013-01-09T12:25:07Z")
Many religions do not have written creeds. I’m not sure it is possible to prove a religious belief. A religion is not always some external force that imposes belief and dogma. That, of course, has fuck all to do with endangering others in the workplace. Can’t you be fired for refusing to work on the sabbath? This is not about the government preventing free exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/92 "2013-01-09T14:06:50Z")
> [@Sevencl](#): > > No, just a relevant piece of news. I’m in favour of flu shots. Oh. Carry on then. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/93 "2013-01-09T14:26:25Z")
Another relevant opinion: > **[Column: Surging flu no reason for vaccine mandate](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/07/flu-shots-mandatory-health-workers/1816361/)** > > Marc Siegel: Focus on voluntary efforts is paying off. I disagree strongly with the op-ed writer. Physicians and other health care workers who support mandatory immunization shouldn’t be ducking responsibility themselves. You choose to work in health care, you give up the “right” to infect others. I wonder what this doc would say about neonatal nursery workers who decide not to get pertussis shots on the basis of their “rights” and the fact that the pertussis vaccine is not as effective as it used to be? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/94 "2013-01-09T14:29:38Z")
He also doesn’t bother to explain what the arguments against mandating the vaccine are. There’s just a conclusory line about how mandates should be reserved for major public health risks. Um, why, dude? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/95 "2013-01-09T15:15:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > IANAL but from what I can gather the legality of such [is questionable](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2882617/) and may vary depending on what state laws are as well. OTOH they can be required to wear masks and other infectious control garb while working during flu season if they do not get vaccinated. > > That is of course different than whether or not they should be. They are exposing high risk individuals. To knowingly increase the health risks of the people they are supposed to be caring for is, to my mind, inexcusably wrong even if it is legal. How is refusing the flu vaccine (which may or may not work depending on strain) get you labeled as an anti-vaxer? If the flu shot was an actual vaccination I’d be on board with the requirement but it isn’t. As to the firing, I’m in Texas where you can be fired for anything so go find employment elsewhere and for the love, do a better job negotiating that contract. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/96 "2013-01-09T15:29:16Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > If the flu shot was an actual vaccination I’d be on board with the requirement but it isn’t. The flu vaccine isn’t an “actual vaccination”? What on Earth do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/97 "2013-01-09T15:49:53Z")
Apparently he thinks it’s not a vaccine if it’s not 100% effective. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/98 "2013-01-09T16:04:52Z")
No, what I think it is, is last years strain of the flu From the CDC "How effective is the flu vaccine? How well the flu vaccine works (or its ability to prevent influenza illness) can range widely from season to season and also can vary depending on who is being vaccinated. At least two factors play an important role in determining the likelihood that influenza vaccine will protect a person from influenza illness: 1) characteristics of the person being vaccinated (such as their age and health), and 2) the similarity or “match” between the influenza viruses in the vaccine and those spreading in the community." That doesn’t sound very convincing to me ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/99 "2013-01-09T16:39:36Z")
What’s not convincing exactly? That the flu vaccine’s effectiveness varies from year to year and person to person? Or do you mean that these facts don’t convince you that you should get a shot? If that’s what you mean, then would you say that you would require the vaccine to be 100% effective before you’d get it? Just curious what your actual position is. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191/100 "2013-01-09T16:52:35Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > What’s not convincing exactly? That the flu vaccine’s effectiveness varies from year to year and person to person? > > Or do you mean that these facts don’t convince you that you should get a shot? If that’s what you mean, then would you say that you would require the vaccine to be 100% effective before you’d get it? > > Just curious what your actual position is. I would not require a 100% effective. Maybe 75% effective, but even at that. You are now firing people, or advocating that it is ok because they don’t prescribe to something that is less than 100% effective. To me, that is the rub. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-legal-to-fire-employees-for-not-getting-a-flu-shot/642191.md?page=6)