Is it legal to threaten someone?

I was threatened by a total psycho that they were going to turn me “into ground beef”.

I went to the local police to file a report because I really felt the guy doing the threatening meant what he said.

He’s well known to the police and no one in the town likes the guy, but because I wasn’t related to him, or sleeping with him, I had no recourse.

I had checked the laws at the time for Order of Protection and it is true that I was not eligible for said Order. I was furious. If someone threatens my life and it appears to be serious enough to scare the crap out of a person, one should be able to get protection!!

The police could do nothing but take my statement. According to what I was told, he had to actually do something to me physically in order for them to do anything.

This is in Illinois and a year ago, by the way.

I see a big difference.
In one instance I’m trying to dissuade someone from doing something they are not legally allowed to do.

In the other case, I have no right to force someone to not wear a particular garment, so at threat in that instance is obviously inappropriate.

So the bully is legally allowed to put you in a state of fear - but if you dared counter threaten by saying something like - lay a finger on me and I’ll club you - oh dear - you’re the criminal. What horseshit the law can be sometimes.

Assuming that “menacing a kid” is something illegal (which isn’t clear to me at all), In both cases you’re threatening battery, which is illegal.

Cops are not attorneys. You should always seek legal advice from attorneys - not cops (and not random people on the web).

Illinois criminal code:

(720 ILCS 5/12‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 12‑1)
Sec. 12‑1. Assault.
(a) A person commits an assault when, without lawful authority, he engages in conduct which places another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

Oregon criminal code:

163.190 Menacing. (1) A person commits the crime of menacing if by word or conduct the person intentionally attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury.

  (2) Menacing is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §95]

911 operators are also not attorneys.

As to threatening people who mess with your kid:

Juries are meant to determine questions of fact, not law. The law may be worded in a way that makes determining whether it was reasonable at the time to threaten someone if they menace your child - in this case the jury could decide that question of fact. However, this is an unlikely scenario - typically, this would be a question of law, to be determined by a judge. More likely, you could attempt a defense of duress in the situation, but you would have to convince a jury that you thought your child was in imminent danger. The law typically tries to avoid encouraging vigilante justice or the threat thereof, as it is anathema to the law itslef - so it really isn’t on your side when you do something illegal for a good reason.

I am not a licensed attorney and this is not legal advice.

Very good points, Darth Panda. I agree.

FalconFinder’s problems may have stemmed from him (or her?) seeking a protection order under the law of whatever state he lives in. All states permit any person to file a criminal complaint or police report; not all states allow non-relatives or non-household members to seek a protection order.

I think the legality is partially dependent on whether or not you are a lawn.

IANAL either, but a jury can decide anything it wants to for whatever reasons it wants to (which is a whole new thread). They also do not give detailed reasons for their decisions. When you do something that is likely against the law and serious enough to involve the legal system, you run the risk that anything may happen. At the end of it, you could be free, you could be in jail. If it’s serious enough, most likely you will be broke.

A jury *can *return any verdict for any reason, but if they blatantly disregard the law then the judge has some options.

It’s much simpler in a civil case, where the judge can simply enter a judgment not withstanding the verdict - which is basically a judgment as a matter of law. This is the simplest way of dealing with juries who want to deal with issues of law rather than fact.

Criminal cases are more difficult for various reasons. If the jury wants to convict someone when the law indicates otherwise, the judge can order a directed verdict. Obviously, state criminal procedure varies wildly, but a judge could grant a motion to set aside the judgment or even raise one sua sponte if the jury overstepped its role.

However, the most important role the judge plays is simply explaining to the jury that their role is that of fact finder, and not one of making the law. In fact, juries are clearly limited in their role - they cannot convict people of crimes that they weren’t charged with and they can’t convict someone of a crime but dictate that the crime should be a misdemeanor instead of a felony and so forth. They don’t decide the law.

If only it were that simple…

At first, John Jay stated “It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision… you [juries] have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy”.

And the 4th circuit had this to say in US v. Moylan:

“If the jury feels that the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust, or exigent circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the right to acquit, and the courts must abide that decision.”

But in Sparf v. US, the Supreme Court ruled that the courts have no obligation to inform the jury of their right of nullification (they never do, and they usually lead them to believe that they are only fact finders). The 2nd circuit has ruled that a juror may be removed if the court feels that he or she intends to nullify the law (US v. Thomas).

But all of this is to find someone not guily or acquit - a jury can’t change the law for a conviction - the judge can direct an acquital - and the judge can completely take over in a civil case. Of course, if it’s in equity, you don’t even need a jury. And if at law and in equity, we get to talk about the Dairy Queen doctrine, which is beautifully complicated…

The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 section 4, which I was forced to quote at school only the other day when a parent asked me what harm her (14 year old) son had done by repeatedly threatening to fuck me up.

UK, obviously.

In my CHL classes in Texas, we learned that the threat of deadly force was justified only when the actual use of deadly force would be justified.

Rob

Just to clarify, I’m a she. :slight_smile:

If I understand Darth Panda right, I should have skipped the police and contacted lawyer? The cops are there to uphold the law. They are the first line of defense and people are going to go to them for help.

Regardless, the guy could have easily killed me and nothing could have been done to protect me. I find that totally insane.

You don’t know thatnothing can be done to help you until you’ve consulted a lawyer.