# Is it morally justifiable flying around in a private jet telling people to cut CO2? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871 "2007-02-19T21:31:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/21 "2007-02-20T00:00:48Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Prolly haven’t ever heard one admit that global warming is real, either, huh? [/QUOTE] Actually today on Hannity I heard him say that though he believes that most is naturally caused, he won’t rule out that a small part may be man caused. Not that I can recall right now, but even when they say, OK what if global warming is real, what are we suppose to do? Should we jack up the price of fuel so the poor will freeze, and the middle class has to walk to work? Is it too late already , and we are all doomed (a claim that several liberals have made), so what’s the difference (the part the liberals who claimed we are already doomed leave out). Their solution to global warming is to deal with it directly if and when it happens, instead of having everyone radically change their lifestyle to that of a 3rd world country. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/22 "2007-02-20T00:08:30Z")
WHEN it happens? It’s already happening. It’s not something that’s GOING to happen, it’s something that’s already BEEN happening. I’d like to see Hannity publish a scientific argument for why the vast majority of credentialed climatologists are wrong and that he’s right about the anthropogenic causes of climate change. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/23 "2007-02-20T00:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] instead of having everyone radically change their lifestyle to that of a 3rd world country. [/QUOTE] Who is pushing that, other than ‘skeptics’ who need a hard left strawman argument? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/24 "2007-02-20T00:17:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Is it too late already , and we are all doomed (a claim that several liberals have made), so what’s the difference (the part the liberals who claimed we are already doomed leave out) Well, here’s the thing. It might be too late to prevent a lot of it, but doing nothing merely ensures that the bad stuff that’s already going to happen…will get worse. ISTM that knowing something can’t be undone, but can get worse, means you have to do what you can so that it _doesn’t_ get worse. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/25 "2007-02-20T00:46:48Z")
[Think Progress actually called Gore’s office and asked about this](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/16/hannity-gore/). > [@](#): > > – Gore lives a strict carbon-neutral lifestyle both in his work and private life. That means he tries to reduce his emissions as much as possible, and then purchases carbon offsets for the remaining emissions. > > – In his private life, Gore tries to reduce his emissions as much as possible. He drives a hybrid, flies commercially whenever he can, and purchases green power. In the few instances where work has demanded that he travel privately, he purchases carbon offsets for the emissions. Sure, Gore could reduce his carbon footprint by unplugging from the grid and living off the land in a shack in Montana. But for someone living in the modern world and doing the sort of work Gore does, he’s doing what he can. In any event, he’s doing a hell of a lot more than Sean Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/26 "2007-02-20T01:04:37Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] In any event, he’s doing a hell of a lot more than Sean Hannity. [/QUOTE] Sean Hannity does not fly in a private jet, Al Gore does, but offsets that carbon by planing trees which will release every last molecule of carbon they take in. Advantage: Sean I would really like to see a comparison of the amount of CO2 that Al Gore has released compared to the common man. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/27 "2007-02-20T01:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] I would really like to see a comparison of the amount of CO2 that Al Gore has released compared to the common man. [/QUOTE] In the interest of balance, you’d also need some figures for Sean Hannity’s methane production. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/28 "2007-02-20T01:14:40Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] In the interest of balance, you’d also need some figures for Sean Hannity’s methane production. [/QUOTE] Was this really necessary, I was really going out of my way to be respectful to ex-vice president Algore, inventor of the internet, Saviour of the planet, and planter of trees. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/29 "2007-02-20T01:29:20Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Sean Hannity does not fly in a private jet, Al Gore does, but offsets that carbon by planing trees which will release every last molecule of carbon they take in. Advantage: Sean [/quote] Oh Really? [http://mediamatters.org/items/200410070009](http://mediamatters.org/items/200410070009) > [@](#): > > According to an October 6 article in the Washington University magazine Student Life, Hannity “reportedly asked that the media not be informed of his motivations for the decision.” The students who had coordinated the event – who had raised $20,000 to bring Hannity to their campus – described what happened: > > Hannity cited personal reasons for his cancellation, said law student Ruth Hollander after speaking with the right-wing pundit over the phone yesterday. Hannity, Hollander said, requested a private jet to fly him to St. Louis for the speech, but then rejected “several” different jets offered by a private donor. He told Hollander about a “bad experience” with the prominent company that had manufactured all the jets offered for his trip. I agreee with **panamajack** , the original post is going from ‘lame’ to ‘super-lame’ [QUOTE=kanicbird] Was this really necessary, I was really going out of my way to be respectful to ex-vice president Algore, inventor of the internet, Saviour of the planet, and planter of trees. [/QUOTE] You forgot Emperor of the moon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Fritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fritz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/30 "2007-02-20T01:32:42Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Sean Hannity does not fly in a private jet, Al Gore does, but offsets that carbon by planing trees which will release every last molecule of carbon they take in. Advantage: Sean I would really like to see a comparison of the amount of CO2 that Al Gore has released compared to the common man. [/QUOTE] Also from **DoctorJ** ’s link above: > [@](#): > > **Hannity said: “I travel on private planes, I have an SUV that I’m proud of. I think this global warming hysteria of his is ridiculous.”** > > ``` > – Thus, the real “irony” of tonight’s show was Hannity feigning concern for Gore’s carbon emissions, while expressing his naive belief that his own emissions are having no impact on our climate. If Hannity were truly concerned about carbon emissions, he would follow the example of Al Gore, cutback on his luxurious private jet lifestyle, and begin purchasing carbon offsets. If he’s not concerned about carbon emissions, then he should stop launching politically-motivated hit jobs that don’t have a point. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/31 "2007-02-20T01:41:50Z")
> [@](#): > > – Thus, the real “irony” of tonight’s show was Hannity feigning concern for Gore’s carbon emissions, while expressing his naive belief that his own emissions are having no impact on our climate. If Hannity were truly concerned about carbon emissions, he would follow the example of Al Gore, cutback on his luxurious private jet lifestyle, Sean does not buy into man made global warming as a problem, he is pointing Al Gore’s is a hypocrite. Sean is consistent on message, Al Gore is not. [QUOTE=GIGObuster] I agreee with panamajack, the original post is going from ‘lame’ to ‘super-lame’ [/QUOTE] It’s not the OP, it’s the response that has gone to super lame, instead of defending Al Gore’s indefensible stance on cutting down carbon emissions while flying a private plane, and other liberals such as John Edwards in **Sam Stone’s** post #15, you are attacking Sean Hannity who doesn’t even believe in man made global warming and does not deny anyone the right to fly in a private plane nor drive a SUV - if they can buy it themselves (without government help) and who’s message is totally consistent. The only lame point you have made is that it’s ok because the ends justify the means. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/32 "2007-02-20T01:42:58Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Was this really necessary, I was really going out of my way to be respectful to ex-vice president Algore, inventor of the internet, Saviour of the planet, and planter of trees. [/QUOTE] Perhaps you _were_ going out of your way. The purveyors of this childish attack on Mr. Gore certainly are not. Having lost their battle against the concept of AGP, they turn their attention to attacking its purveyors, using any means imaginable. It’s almost as if Gore were the new Saddam, and this is the buildup to 'Operation Iraqi Freedom II." Funny thing how it’s the same people slinging bullshit in this different cause. A reasonable person might well conclude that slinging bullshit is all these people are capable of. As such, I grant them the respect they deserve, nothing more, _nothing less_. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/33 "2007-02-20T01:49:25Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Sean does not buy into man made global warming as a problem, he is pointing Al Gore’s is a hypocrite. Sean is consistent on message, Al Gore is not. It’s not the OP, it’s the response that has gone to super lame, instead of defending Al Gore’s indefensible stance on cutting down carbon emissions while flying a private plane, and other liberals such as John Edwards in **Sam Stone’s** post #15, you are attacking Sean Hannity who doesn’t even believe in man made global warming and does not deny anyone the right to fly in a private plane nor drive a SUV - if they can buy it themselves (without government help) and who’s message is totally consistent. [/quote] :rolleyes: Yeah you were 100% wrong by saying that Hannity did not use jets, and that means I’m attacking him? Sorry bud, you were wrong, deal with it. > [@](#): > > The only lame point you have made is that it’s ok because the ends justify the means. :rolleyes: No, you are putting words in my mouth, you were not correct and yet you want to make me say something else, **that** is lame. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/34 "2007-02-20T01:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Yeah you were 100% wrong by saying that Hannity did not use jets, and that means I’m attacking him? Sorry bud, you were wrong, deal with it. [/QUOTE] I can deal with it, but you must deal with the truth no matter ho many time syou use the role eyes emoicon, Sean is consistent on message, Al Gore, and John Edwards are indefeasible hypocrites. > [@](#): > > No, you are putting words in my mouth, you were not correct and yet you want to make me say something else, that is lame. Again you can role your eyes all you want (don’t take that as medical advice), it doesn’t change the fact that the ONLY point in Al Gore and his ilk’s favor is the arugment that the ends justify the means, and yes you are correct the ONLY point your side has was NOT made by you. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/35 "2007-02-20T02:36:42Z")
Shoot, I was supposed to be the one with the big grammar problems! [QUOTE=kanicbird] I can deal with it, but you must deal with the truth no matter ho many time syou use the role eyes emoicon, Sean is consistent on message, Al Gore, and John Edwards are indefeasible hypocrites. [/quote] Nope, there are several examples already that show that at least Gore can defend himself, you are not correct on that at all (One can make the point they are not doing enough, but it is a lie to say they are _indefensible_.) And \*\*dealing with the fact that you were wrong \*\* means to then accept that Hannity does not have any advantage at all in this discussion, neither do all the other conservative talk radio blow hards. > [@](#): > > Again you can role your eyes all you want (don’t take that as medical advice) Unless they are going to remake _The attack of THE the Eye monsters_ (sic), my eyes will not get their dream role, but my oculist told me all the make up will discourage them from that silly idea. 🙂 > [@](#): > > it doesn’t change the fact that the ONLY point in Al Gore and his ilk’s favor is the arugment that the ends justify the means, and yes you are correct the ONLY point your side has was NOT made by you. Reading the \*\*Panamajack \*\* cite shows that it is not a simple “ends justifying the means” situation, it remains lame to say it is. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/36 "2007-02-20T02:49:34Z")
I think a distinction needs to be made between “hypocritical” and “unjustifiable.” Is Al Gore being hypocritical? Yes, of course he is. Is his hypocracy justifiable? Again, of course it is. Okay, hypothetical time. What if Al Gore’s hot button topic was saving endangered giraffaphants. Suddenly he’s faced with a scenario where one giraffaphant is holed up in a gas station with a bus load of baby giraffaphants, and the captor has a gun and is threatening to kill all his captives. Now let’s put Al Gore behind a sniper rifle aimed through the gas station window at the crazed adult giraffaphant. Should he take the shot? Of course he should. He believes that he’ll save more endangered giraffaphants by pulling the trigger. We can expect Sean Hannity to start giving him grief about the hypocracy of killing a giraffaphant when that’s his biggest issue. But the giraffaphant’s death, in Gore’s eyes, is justified. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/37 "2007-02-20T02:53:31Z")
Can we call this debate by technical knockout? Cause **Kanicbird** is getting the crap beat out of him. PS Never, ever, get your “facts” from Sean Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/38 "2007-02-20T02:54:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Al Gore, and John Edwards are indefeasible hypocrites. How you figure? You seem to be arguing that anybody who supports a cause is a hypocrite if s/he isn’t supporting the cause **in every possible way during every moment of their lives**. But this is silly. AFAIK, Gore has never made the claim that everybody needs to cut their CO2 emissions **as much as possible at all times**. He’s simply arguing that we as individuals and a society need to take **some** eco-friendly steps to reduce our emissions **significantly**. And he seems to be taking many of those steps in his own life, so I fail to see how he comes out a hypocrite. Apparently, Gore’s reducing his carbon footprint in some areas and buying carbon offsets in others isn’t enough to convince you that he’s personally sincere about making efforts to reduce carbon emissions. What **would** be enough to convince you, then? Please give us specific details about what kind of lifestyle you would consider acceptable for Gore to maintain in order for you not to consider him a “hypocrite” on emissions reduction. Include your requirements for maximum square footage of his residence(s), maximum miles traveled by him per year for every applicable mode of travel, and maximum CO2 generated by all other forms of his consumption. > [@kanicbird](#): > > OK what if global warming is real, what are we suppose to do? Should we jack up the price of fuel so the poor will freeze, and the middle class has to walk to work? That may turn out to be a last-resort desperate measure if our unchecked carbon emissions end up seriously threatening major, catastrophic climate change. However, it will hopefully not be necessary **if we all take some reasonable steps now, as individuals and as a society, to start reducing our emissions and to develop more low-emissions alternatives in the near future.** Which, ISTM, is exactly what Gore is doing himself and trying to persuade the rest of us to do. Unfortunately, many of the people he’s trying to reach seem to be so frantically averse to paying **any** attention to climate science, or making **any** modifications to our fossil-fuel use, that they’re desperately trying to change the subject to silly arguments about whether Gore is being a hypocrite if he does a lot of flying. What, you think that if you can prove Gore is a hypocrite then global warming will just go away and you won’t have to worry about it anymore? Dream on, babe. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/39 "2007-02-20T03:54:23Z")
OK. Suppose we agree that Gore and Edwards are hypocritical. All that means is that they aren’t as effective salesmen as they could be. It doesn’t change the thing that they are trying to promote at all. There is still an overwhelming scientific consensus that we are having a bad effect on the climate. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871/40 "2007-02-20T04:03:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Why do righties so badly want to catch Al Gore in some kind of hypocrisy anyway? [/QUOTE] The same reason bullies pick on smaller kids. Because they are scared of him. 😃 There guy barely won the last two elections and we have six years to figure out there scare tactics, mis-information and outright lies. They are very afraid. They may even have to start talking about real issues instead of practicing character assasination and complaining about who flies what airplane. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-justifiable-flying-around-in-a-private-jet-telling-people-to-cut-co2/392871.md?page=3)