Is it morally justifiable flying around in a private jet telling people to cut CO2?

[Miller]

No, my dig is fine. You did, however, kick my cet.

[ElvisL1ves]

@kanicbird

I can deal with it, but you must deal with the truth no matter ho many time syou use the role eyes emoicon, Sean is consistent on message, Al Gore, and John Edwards are indefeasible hypocrites.

The truth, the fact of global warming, is one of those things you therefore must deal with. But this doesn’t make it appear you accept that:

@kanicbird

Sean does not buy into man made global warming as a problem, he is pointing Al Gore’s is a hypocrite.

Why are you not tearing into Hannity for not “buying into” global warming? Does he also not “buy into” evolution and gravity? They’re not opinions, they’re “the truth” you assert must be dealt with. Gore is doing so, and helping fight a world of ignorance along the way. You and Hannity are pretending “the truth” doesn’t exist so you can take potshots at those who do recognize it. It’s exactly the same as if he made fun of Darwin for not siring a monkey, or Newton for not sitting under every apple tree. Nothing there for you to be proud of, pal.

[sqweels]

@kanicbird

Some have pointed put that Al Gore’s carbon is neglegable by himself, but isn’t Al Gore’s message that Joe Sixpack can make a difference by selecting a Prius instead of a Hummer, that these little choices add up? Why isn’t Al Gore contributing also?

To summarize and reiterate a few of the main points:

• Al Gore has indeed made an effort to reduce/make up for his emissions.

• The message is not just that Joe Sixpack should make sacrifices, but that government and industry should do their part.

• Joe Sixpack doesn’t have to start making sacrifices right this minute, but mentally prepare himself to start doing so in the near future.

• Don’t shoot the messenger. It’s not about Al Gore getting in your face and demanding that you his own arbitrary expectations.

• While it’s always a good idea for leaders to set a good example (see above), like it or not, different standards apply to leaders, since it’s their job to motivate large numbers of people to act, not do it all themselves.

• Gore’s public appearances are almost certainly inspiring greater reductions in emissions than are expended in his traveling to make them.

• Calling attention to Gore’s occasional use of private planes, as Hannity is doing, makes a mountain out of a molehill, is in no way helpful, and is clearly nothing more than an attempt to smear a political opponent.

• For a conservative to accuse anyone else of hypocrisy is “meta-hypocrisy”.

[Chief_Pedant]

@Miller

What the hell. Maybe if it’s posted three times, someone will actually read it:

Without even researching it (and I’ll probably get a scolding for not doing so) I am all kinda good with living at an Al Gore level. CO2 emissions correlate with wealth, and there is absolutely no chance Mr Gore is living at anywhere near a sacrificial or sustainable level. No chance he flies Coach; no chance he has a small house; no chance he takes the bus; no chance his personal consumption is at a level the world would need per individual to affect global warming. Certainly no chance his broader clan is.

This is not an attack on Mr Gore, but an offer to live his lifestyle if that’s what he’s talking about. And an offer to do so with the full risk that he is actually living what his message preaches.

For those of you who think Mr Gore’s message is just “Do better than we’re doing now, and buy offsets for the rest” my reaction is that doing anything at that level is like blowing into the air with your mouth to push away a hurricane. You’ll feel better but it won’t change anything.

So…anyone with data that he does take the bus instead of flying? Any data on the size of his house? etc etc?

[Kimstu]

@Chief Pedant

Without even researching it (and I’ll probably get a scolding for not doing so) […] So…anyone with data […] ?

Not only do you refuse to research the question you want to know about, but you’re expecting somebody else to go research it for you? Yeah, you’ll probably get scolded for that.

[Little_Nemo]

This has got to be one of the most annoying things that pops up in any political discussion. Saying “what about your guy” when we’re talking about someone in specific adds nothing to the conversation and is usually aimed at simply ending the conversation. I hate it when people do it with Clinton, Bush, or arnyone else. This thread isn’t about Mark fucking Foley or Ted Haggard it’s about Al Gore and his use of private jets vs. his message about the environment.

That was my point actually. I get tired of the people who can’t defend their position on its own merits so they divert the argument onto another subject.

“Well, I can’t argue convincingly against global warming any more, so I’ll discredit the messenger.”
“It appears Al Gore has presented too much evidence for his position for me to discredit his message. So I guess I’ll complain about the airplane he rides around in to spread that message.”
“And now it appears that Gore took steps to counteract the problems caused by his airplane. Which means I have to point the finger at some hypothetical other people who might have done something wrong at some point.”
“Now people are calling me on my hypothetical finger pointing. I suppose I can claim they’re just prejudiced against fingers, but I’m starting to run low on straw.”

[Chief_Pedant]

@Kimstu

Not only do you refuse to research the question you want to know about, but you’re expecting somebody else to go research it for you? Yeah, you’ll probably get scolded for that.

I’m way too lazy to document the obvious for the sake of the naive.

[Chief_Pedant]

@Chief Pedant

I’m way too lazy to document the obvious for the sake of the naive.

Sorry…forgot my smiley

[mlees]

@garygnu

mlees, here is a wikiepedia primer on the subject of national carbon credits, and here is one on the personal version.
The idea, in both cases, is that everyone gets an amount of acceptable emissions, and if you use too many yourself, you can purchase extras from someone else who hasn’t used up their share. You can also get extras by doing things to reduce emissions.

Thanks for the links.

[Squink]

@Little Nemo

That was my point actually. I get tired of the people who can’t defend their position on its own merits so they divert the argument onto another subject.

Glen McCoy demonstrates the beauty of this technique in today’s cartoon.
Gore, Global Warming, and Britney. It takes a certain genius to see the connections.