K, my family is dirt poor, it’s just the way they are. I’m going to college to change that for myself. They help me as much as they can.
Now of my friends should I ask the friend who’s finances where ran into the ground over a broken fuel pump?
The pregnant one due for delivery next month who’s trying unsuccessfully to find a job and money for an apartment?
Please tell me which one to ask, or get off your high horse.
>Hey, someone is bitching about someone else making large amounts of profit and all they have to do to join in is buy stock freely on the market. It is simple.
If you are referring to the OP, their “bitching” is about charging more at the expense of poor people. Poor people are typically not in a position to buy oil company stock. In fact they often have to spend more on fuel than rich people because fuel efficiency in cars costs extra and they are often not in a position to invest at the time of purchase in fuel efficiency that will pay them back over their ownership period. And, because they have lower incomes, the fraction of their income spent on fuel relative to the fraction of their income spent on elective investing is enormous, compared to the same statistic for wealthy people.
I think I’d have to agree with the general spirit of this “bitching”. Or, more accurately, this questioning of an ethically laden situation in economic competition.
>Every economic transaction that is made enriches both the buyer and the seller. No one buys something unless he or she thinks that the benefits from buying outweigh (or equal) the price they are paying. You don’t buy something thinking that you will be worse off once you complete the transaction.
Actually, I think it’s YOUR premise that is flawed. Your description is a common enough starting point for discussions of economics and maximization of utility. However, it doesn’t take into account the ways that people acquire some kinds of expenses without ever thinking the benefits of buying outweigh the price they are paying.
In the US, for example, except in inner cities, automobiles are practically a requirement to be a normal participant in society. I live, and work (somewhat odd hours), 15 miles apart, and there are few jobs like mine in this rural region, and it’s not an easy time to sell a house right now. So, it would be practically very difficult to stop relying on an automobile. And I’m in a better position to choose than most. It would be hard to change much about the important elements in this equation for me (my car already gets high gas mileage and I don’t have carpooling options or public transportation). But I would certainly take a dim view of gas hitting $10 a gallon and oil companies doubling or tripling their current profits.
Another example of a buying decision people may often make without really thinking it is beneficial is the borrowing and repaying element of credit card or other consumer debt. Another is being hooked on cigarettes since one’s mid teens (which as I remember is not a good time for picking life success strategies). Another is rent-to-own. Worse still, some companies that make these kinds of sales practice elaborately constructed advertising and other campaigns to acquire customers. To trap unwilling victims, if I state it more emphatically.
Yet you seem to be willing to expect perfect strangers to give you a break on your activities by not getting the maximum return on their investment. What obligation do they have, or should have, to you?
If you live that close to poverty that you can’t afford to buy a single share in the ‘highly profitable’ oil companies about which you bitch, then how is it that you can afford to post on the internet? Maybe the time you spend posting here could be better spent working and earning the money you need to fill your gas tank? Just a suggestion.
Seriously, go read what Ravenman wrote about profits. I remember when oil was $10 a barrel and companies were closing down, shutting in wells, and laying off people. Huge profits come from huge investments (and huge risk). It takes millions (if not billions) of dollars to get at oil today. Jed just doesn’t fire his shotgun into the ground to find it anymore. If a company invests billions of dollars and the oil price suddenly drops (which it could easily do) are you willing to return the money you think they should have given you in breaks?
No, it’s a simple fact of life. No one buys or sells with the intent that the transaction will make them worse off. No one.
Sure, it turns out that many economic transactions may not work out as intended. The benefits from either buying or selling may not live up to the expectations of the buyer or seller. So what? That’s life.
And why would you take a “dim view” of oil company profits tripling? Do you really think there is a causal connection? Do high oil company profits cause higher gas prices?
The examples you give do not invalidate my premise. In fact, they merely support it. Take rent-to-own. For the people who get into such a situation the benefits of having the goods today outweigh the cost they will pay in the long run. These people place a premium on short-term gratification. Now, you can look down on them and say that they should not do so. Perhaps they would truly be better off, financially, if they save up their money to purchase, say, a TV rather than going the rent-to-own route. But they would be without a TV during the time they are saving. Perhaps they want to watch TV during this time and don’t want to wait. You or I may choose differently. But those are preferences. Sure, it will certainly lead to an easier financial situation in the long run if people would make a different financial choice, but that may not be what they prefer. As long as they aren’t asking you for money, what do you care?
The obligation not to be a dick. Like they are right now. If their was any justice in the world oil company execs would be made to live for a year like the poor and experience the suffering their prices cause.
Which the oil body is acting like a class 10 dick on scale of dickness that only goes upto 9.
Because of the dicks running big oil shutting down my net would only buy me a gallon and a half of extra gas.
I have dialup you see.
there are very few jobs in Michigan right now and they’re very hard to come by
You think I want to live this way? Do you? For real?
Ever think maybe the gas prices might have an effect on business? People don’t have as much extra money anymore. It’s hard as heck to find jobs. Especially in Michigan. 20 and 30 something are fighting for Mcdonald’s jobs. It’s that bad. I put in applications every chance I get. I’m at the point I’d love a McDonald’s job.
You think I’m happy having to walk several miles through the dark country night, and ration basics like bread, and romane noodles because of gas prices?
I’d like an apology for you ignorant incorrect judgment of me.
Hmm there’s plenty of crude on the market. The bottleneck seems to be refinery capacity. You know who handles American refining? American oil companies.
Exxon can’t invest a few billion of it’s windfall profits in a few refinery out put upgrades to make sure gas is cheap enough it doesn’t run the economy into the ground? Or is the rich getting richer more important then common people being able to put food on the table?
Well then don’t fucking live in Michigan then.
Problem solved.
If you choose to live somewhere where there are no jobs and no opportunity, then in my book, you have little room to bitch and moan about things like high gas prices.
As for the OP… the oil and gasoline prices aren’t really set by the oil companies- it’s done through an open market with a healthy dose of speculation, which is why the market reacts pre-emptively to things like hurricanes, etc… before they actually have any real effects on supply or demand.
The oil companies benefit from higher prices, but don’t set them, per-se. And it’d be stupid for one of them to unilaterally drop prices- they’d only make less money, without much hope of making it up in volume (because there’s not that kind of elasticity in the retail gasoline market).
Please tell me you’re kidding. PLEASE, tell me you’re kidding.
Oh wow, I couldn’t figure that one out myself.
If I don’t have enough for gas to get to college and back how on earth do you expect me to move??? hmm??
Come on tell me. What’s your magic way to move without any money? Tell me or apologize.
This is why I’m trying to go to college, to better my lot in life. So I can afford to do things like get hybrids, move. ect. Bloody hard with economy right now.
Btw I was born and raised in Michigan.
What the heck are “romane noodles”?
The Tao’s Revenge, you should take an economics class while you are in college. Prices are set by supply and demand. Oil prices are high because demand is high. Demand is high because developing nations such as India and China are using more and more fuel. Supply still hasn’t caught up and it may never catch up.
If it’s of any consolation, gas costs about half as much in China as it does in Canada/US, due to government subsidies. This is IMO a wrongheaded and unsustainable policy that will probably soon be changed, thus putting a damper on Chinese demand for fuel and world prices.
I’ll be blunt, if you take that attitude into a job interview it will show. I can’t tell you how to live your life but I can tell you how I lived mine. I worked my way through college by driving junky economy cars and doing the maintenance myself. At one point I had 2 very rusty Mavericks that became one rusty Maverick with the best parts of both cars. That involved swapping engines and a bunch of other parts. I bought a used mobile home to reduce living expenses. I worked 2 jobs until I found a single job that paid more. I eventually sold the mobile home and used it as a down payment for a modest (cheap) house. It took a long time to get through school this way.
The company I ended up working for was losing money beyond reason so I cut my expenses and put the money toward extra house payments. When they were bought out and liquidated I received a severance package that went into the bank. That’s where it stayed. The next job was promising but ended up going south in a year. With my house paid off and the severance package from the last company in the bank I’m now looking for another job. It sucks to be doing this so soon after my last job but that’s life.
I’m not eating dirt right now because I planned ahead. It wasn’t a mystery that gas prices would go up or the housing market would collapse. You could see it coming a mile away. I’m hardly a miser or a financial planner but I did attempt some control of my future. I tried to leave buffer zones in case it got worse. When I was in school I was prepared to take a roommate. I would have gotten another college student so we would be able to car-pool.
During my working career I gave up cable and other unnecessary expenses. I carpooled to work when possible. When I needed a bigger garage I built it. I’ve had to do extensive work to the house such as tearing the kitchen apart to re-plumb water and sewer lines. I’ve taken down trees, poured concrete steps and replaced all the fascia and gutters.
It wasn’t all beans-and-rice. I learned to fly by helping to restore an airplane. I’ve built sports cars. I’ve done all the normal things in life that people want to do. I paid for it with my labor and the skills I picked up over time.
I applaud your struggle to get through school but if you expect the world to owe you a job after graduation you will fail on a personal level. College isn’t about learning a couple of interesting facts, it’s about learning how to learn. You should take those skills and continue learning in every facet of life. Do not respond to my thread with the word “can’t” because I’ve been there and I’ve done that.
I think he meant Ramen Noodles which is a cheap meal to make given the subject matter.
I have bad spelling sometimes. The e at the end may not be necessary.
I know how supply and demand works.
hmm seems if we had more oil we couldn’t put it to use. Refinery capacity is a bottle neck.
I just want to be able to leave the house sometimes. I’d be so grateful if I could just find any job. It’s just really frustrating when people look down their noises at me with stupid advice like “move” “buy stock”. Really I couldn’t figure that out on my own. :rolleyes: Those require money. Might as well tell a monkey to just fly to get the banana until I can find a job.
I’m happy that life is working out great for you because of astute planning. Thing is I got screwed by things building since before I was an adult. I’d happy for a simple fast food job.
I do my best to be polite and professional at a job interview. This angry forum thing is just mainly my outlet for stress these fuel prices are causing on my life.
Here’s a run down of my life right now. My diet varies badly. Bread can be a luxury. I usually feel really guitly toward the end of the month cause I all I have to feed my poor kitty is pasta. My car is on the verge of breaking down. The ECU is bad. I’ve been using the same razor for months so if I’m not careful I nick my self good. I always manage to have enough gas to make it to class, but I run out sometimes miles from home and get to walk home in the dark, goodie. My on campus classes tend to end in the evening. Meanwhile till I can get my car home I get to worry about it being towed. Oh and the right headlight is out. cheap repair right? It’s more money then I have to spare for it. So until I get a fixit ticket, that’s lower priority. I have to scrounge around and figure out which clothes are the least dirty so I can soak em over night for clean clothes in the morning. Laundromats are too much of a luxury.
oh and bike riding opens you up to random abuse by asshole motorists. Like the idiot who honked right behind me, spooked me then flipped me off as he drove away. Real classy that.
Oh and if I ever get sick I’ll be screwed.
I don’t have the right to demand a particular job. but I think I have a right to demand there’s jobs to find.
The US economy is failing, high prices are a root cause of it.
Got it in one. Spelling is not my strong suit.
btw I’m not saying my life is a tragedy. It’s far from it. I’m very lucky I have things as good as I do. They could be much worse.
I’m just fed up with having to struggle week to week, day to day. While gas prices rise and make it harder and harder. I just want a bit of stability for once.
Yes, and the companies who would build a refinery are somewhat loath to do so for good reasons.
Refinery law a bust
You seem to be upset over my ignorant mis-characterization of you, yet you assume that all oil company exec’s were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, or don’t care about other people and their suffering…
Not to offend Guin, but has already been suggested by another, move to where there are jobs (once you’ve finished your education, of course). Or start your own business where you can not exploit the common man to your heart’s content.
I never assumed you were crazy and I can certainly sympathize because I’ve been there myself. My issue is with you wanting someone else to do something for you who is under no obligation to do so.
What do you think would happen to a company president who went to his board and suggested that they arbitrarily lower the price of their product and they’d agreed? They’d be removed from their positions at the next shareholders meeting.
What would happen to the company if he did get permission to do so? The stock would go down and they’d be bought by the competition.
What would happen if he lowered it on his own without telling anyone(yeah, like it was possible)? He’d not only lose his job once he was found out, he’d probably go to jail to boot.
Yes, and it is exciting! Think about all the new innovations being developed in alternate energy technologies and even in the oil and gas industries themselves. While you may be suffering at the moment others are profiting. Alberta has had multiple billions worth of investment come in and it has spurred our economy to almost the breaking point.
Was I incorrect in that you expected people to help you who are under no obligation to do so? That seems to be your major issue and was what I intended to address. But, if you want some sympathy, I am sorry that you are poor.
Nobody owes you a job, especially not one that’s convenient for you.
It strikes me that there are several examples of skewed thinking here…
Because you don’t have/can’t find a job, and have a hard time affording gas, it’s someone else’s fault.
You have a cat, and feed it, when you can’t afford laundry. Great idea.
"I do my best to be polite and professional at a job interview. " Sorry… doing your best won’t cut it- you really can’t afford not to be professional and polite at job interviews. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
I find it more than a little hard to believe that NO job is available. Both universities I went to had a HUGE number of relatively low paid student jobs available, and there were also lots of low paid student type jobs available outside of the school, usually with high turnover at the end of the semester. You’re seriously going to tell me that none of the bars around campus will have bar-back jobs available after the end of the semester, or you can’t get a job waiting tables?
You’re waiting UNTIL you get a ticket to replace the headlight? Bright move there… rather than paying the $10 up front, you’d rather get a ticket for some multiple of that, end up paying the $10 anyway, and have to spend 42 cents on a stamp to boot (if it doesn’t involve going to the courthouse - more precious gas!)
You don’t mention student loans- when I was in grad school, they were worth about 20 grand a year, which was more than enough to live very modestly, pay tuition, and have a little left over.
Doesn’t your school have a student health services office or “quack shack”? Mine have, and you can get adequate care at a really discounted rate. You may want to look into that ahead of time before you do get sick.
You seem to be under the false impression that I’m picky.
I’ll take anything it doesn’t have to be convent. Just so it can work around my classes. I’ll live off roadkill before I’ll give up my classes. They’re my ticket out of this.
Tell me, and the people facing hard times because the astounding gas prices. Do we deserve to suffer?
Did I personally run the economy into the ground? Seems part of it is the high gas prices. Who’s greedy self centered refusal to upgrade refining capacity is causing part of this? Big oil.
If I take my kitty to the pound. She’ll most likely be killed.
I love my kitty. I took care of her since her mom stopped nursing her before her eyes opened. I used to get up at 3 am and feed her with an eye dropper till she was old enough to eat on her own.
Trust me I’m aware. You have no idea idea what I’m like at an interview and you presume to critique me? Doesn’t that strike you as a tad condescending and judgmental?
The anger you’re seeing here isn’t present in an interview. I have no fight with them. Just a desire to do honest professional work to make a living.
Just when your stomach is growling because all you had was a 15 cent pack of roman noodles, and that $6 in your pocket is going completely to the oil company for one trip to school. You get resentful and angry.
I’ve tried. Why can’t you understand this? my state has 8 to 9% unemployment rate. Seriously. Tell me. St. Joe county got it especially bad. It’s where alot of low income people live. So when jobs get cut they’re usually the easiest to let go.
I don’t have a university. I’m going to community college. It’s alot smaller. It’s mainly for one low population county.
I go out every chance I get. It’s hard to get out sometimes with gas prices, and showing up all sweaty from a bike ride always makes a bad impression. It’s unprofessional and says you have unreliable transportation.
I go right by the court house to get to college. I seldom see cops at night so I could prolly go a few months before being caught, maybe I’ll find a job before then. The point is things are tight enough right now $10 for that would have to come out of something more important.
I’ve been thinking about that. I don’t know ,my credit isn’t the best. I have medical bills. What’s your experience with them? They hard to get? I could get by with a $3,000 federal loan easy.
Maybe, if they do though I’ll have to let it go till I have a job. You have no idea how much pressure I’m under trying to make it through. There’s nurse practitioner you can see around here for $35. Which is more then I have to spare. Medical care is a luxury in this country. Lucky Canadians.
