# Is it morally wrong to think of a friends spouse/significant other naked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431 "2021-01-13T10:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/61 "2021-01-14T13:08:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You shouldn’t have looked at his wife, half-smiled, and licked your lips before saying “yes”. It is a dead giveaway. Or you **should have** looked at his wife, half-smiled, licked your lips, _and winked_ before saying, “No, but I will now.” ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/62 "2021-01-14T13:44:15Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t need to think of how people who I know would look naked - I have actual porn. (On the internet, it’s available for free!) But real people are infinitely more interesting, sexually, too, than the achingly fake and emotionally void porn. I have near-zero interest to have sex (even in my imagination) with people who I know nothing about, apart from shapes and sizes. Only good guys turn me on and get to have me, and for all I know, that porn actress is a horrible person with values and attitudes ugly as sin. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/63 "2021-01-14T14:29:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Is it really that common? I don’t routinely think of people I know naked, or have to refrain from doing so. Maybe it’s a man thing. No idea how common it is (though the posts I was responding to suggested that it’s fairly common). But as I see it, it’s part of a general category of “erotic (or potentially erotic) thoughts about people who are completely off limits”, which a lot of people wisely refrain from. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/64 "2021-01-14T21:03:15Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > But real people are infinitely more interesting, sexually, too, than the achingly fake and emotionally void porn. I have near-zero interest to have sex (even in my imagination) with people who I know nothing about, apart from shapes and sizes. Only good guys turn me on and get to have me, and for all I know, that porn actress is a horrible person with values and attitudes ugly as sin. Any married person who would have sex with me is a horrible person and a bad guy. (And I have extreme doubts about their taste as well.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/65 "2021-01-14T21:25:48Z")
Aside: I’m the second-youngest member of my D&D group. The youngest is the daughter of two of the other members. Once, in the pre-game conversation, it came up that most of the group had known each other since youngestmember was in diapers. She said “Yeah, Chronos is the only one here who’s never seen me naked!”. I very quickly ran through the possibilities, and conclusively determined that there was no possible thing I could say in response to that that would be better than keeping my mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/66 "2021-01-15T01:24:00Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > , …you’re all just amorphous blobs with colourful avatars… Not me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/67 "2021-01-15T06:03:00Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Is it really that common? I don’t routinely think of people I know naked, or have to refrain from doing so. Maybe it’s a man thing. I would guess it’s more common for guys. But I’ve sometimes wondered what a guy looks like without a shirt. Of course, I’ve just as often imagined what that person across the conference table would look like with a big fluffy tail. Or mentally added a mohawk. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/68 "2021-01-15T13:01:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I prefer not to speculate about something I’m never going to see anyway. Well, in my experience, situations change, relationships end and start, but pools of friends (the jokes write themselves) are pretty stable, so one is _way_ more likely to end up having sex with someone they know than unknowns, without infidelity involved. P.S. I know and appreciate **begbert2** replying to me downthread. But I can’t quote multiple messages in the same thread by one person, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/69 "2021-01-15T13:10:42Z")
Your white square is still a color for me, barely standing out on the #f8f8f8 background (white is #fffff). It makes me wonder if you could put in a fully transparent avatar, or if that fails, have a single pixel of very slightly not transparent. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/70 "2021-01-15T15:51:31Z")
My life regarding relationships is pretty absurdly stable and always has been. I’ve also managed to avoid any sitcom love triangles and the like. Having just reviewed the OP, I want to draw a distinction between “thinking about” and “imagining”. I can say with a pretty high level of confidence that I haven’t imagined most people naked, just because my brain doesn’t like trying to fill in the blanks about reality like that. I might _wonder_ about it, but my brain doesn’t presume to paint a picture of it that might not match reality. It’s not the same a picturing them with a tail or a mohawk; that’s a deliberate fictional fantasy. But the majority of people actually do have a body under their clothes, and I will no more invent facts about their physique than I will spontaneously decide that they have specific food allergies. My brain will actively avoid guessing about stuff like this - if you _asked_ me to picture you naked, I would picture you with all the unknown bits blurred out or, more accurately, as voids that were not filled in the first place. Of course, that’s _picturing_ somebody naked. Thinking about somebody naked is a much lower bar to clear. “Hmm, **Toxylon** probably bathes every now and then. They probably don’t do it clothed, so they probably get naked now and then.” There. I’ve thought about you being naked, without picturing you being naked. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/71 "2021-01-15T15:53:52Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Is it really that common? I don’t routinely think of people I know naked, or have to refrain from doing so. Maybe it’s a man thing. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No idea how common it is (though the posts I was responding to suggested that it’s fairly common). > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I would guess it’s more common for guys. I just wanted to comment and clean up any possible miscommunication based on my earlier post. The question the OP had to answer was “Have you _ever_ thought of someone’s in the room’s spouse naked?” [[emphasis mine]]. I indicated that in such a situation I would have answered yes, and that I felt it was common to fellow males in my experience (Mrs. Lines indicates she has had similar situations in the past, although interesting less frequently with people in person, compared to an actor on the screen). The point is that it’s usually a one-time idle thought, or if something (like the asking the damn question itself) brings it too mind. I can’t think of (with the possible exception I just mentioned) a time where I’ve had the thought repeat outside of the 13-19 age bracket where I feel safe in ascribing it a biological near imperative that I feel comfortable leaving far behind me. So for any concerned dopers out there that are afraid that adult males spend all their time undressing you, and therefore (and legitimately!) feel objectified, threatened, and grossed out… It probably happens more than we want to admit, but for most of us it’s more about curiosity and lingering testosterone poisoning. On behalf of the (grosser?) sex, I apologize for it, and wanted to point out that when we’ve been talking about the “moral” significance of the thought, we had in NO way addressed the morality of how this would feel to many women (I guess the same could apply to men as well) especially those who have been the subject of unwelcomed sexual advances in the past. And that leaves out the point that I made in my original post, where if it _isn’t_ a matter of passing curiosity, where you are repeatedly thinking about it, that you’ve moved into dangerous moral territory, and worse if you’re letting your thoughts show through unto the source of your fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/72 "2021-01-15T15:59:38Z")
ETA: When I started, @BigT 3 posts above was the last. Some folks slipped my points in just above while I was dithering. Carrying on with my post as it originally was … @BigT: We’ve had a couple discussions about the tech of avatars in the appropriate ~~forums~~ categories. I’d bet you can use any content whatsoever that can be expressed in the image formats Discourse recognizes as long as the size is right enough. As to the OP, I’m real late to this party: This: > [@Icarus](#): > > To me, the bigger issue is the party game itself. If these yahoos wanted to play this “truth or dare” variation, then they should be accepting of the answers - full stop. This nonsense of asking the question (titter tee hee), and then feigning outrage at the answer is the immature stance. The problem was guaranteed to arise once the blue-nosed hosts chose to play a not-compatible-with-bluenoses game. Morons. As they say in the legal biz about working in court: “Never ask a question you don’t know the answer to.” That also applies to at least some social situations. IMO an even better rubric for social situations is “Never ask a question unless you can stand all the possible answers.” > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > That clip alone is more perfectly written and acted than any single part of the vast majority of sitcoms. > > (sorry to derail, it had to be said) > > mmm That was probably the best 100 seconds of TV in years. And without your endorsement (and @Little_Nemo’s posting it) I’d have missed it. Thank you both! > [@BigT](#): > > And, as someone with OCD, I know all about automatic thoughts. I’m not sure anything involuntary can be immoral. Down that path lies scrupulosity and religiosity. Not OCD but completely agree w your conclusion. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Is it really that common? I don’t routinely think of people I know naked, or have to refrain from doing so. Maybe it’s a man thing. See: > [@ParallelLines](#): > > … And I would like to say that in general, if someone is reasonably attractive, I as a male, have _probably_ at one point or another had the image or thought run through my head for a moment … In the fully feral male state to notice a female is to instantly evaluate them as a sex partner. The only question is how much any given male is still feral vs tame. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/73 "2021-01-15T16:14:45Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > To me, the bigger issue is the party game itself. If these yahoos wanted to play this “truth or dare” variation, then they should be accepting of the answers - full stop. This nonsense of asking the question (titter tee hee), and then feigning outrage at the answer is the immature stance. Not sure I agree with this. It depends on the nature of the game. If the people who got offended thought up the question themselves, then of course you’re right. But I would guess they were playing some sort of commercial game with all sorts of preprinted questions of which this was one. So that they didn’t choose to ask that question, but just happened to draw that card. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/74 "2021-01-15T16:19:22Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > It’s not the same a picturing them with a tail or a mohawk; that’s a deliberate fictional fantasy. Maybe a better example would be wondering or imagining what a bearded man would look like clean-shaven. Like imagining someone naked, it’s something one might do out of curiosity or idle speculation. Unlike imagining someone naked, it’s not something one might do out of sexual desire or prurient interest. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/75 "2021-01-15T16:21:37Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Maybe a better example would be wondering or imagining what a bearded man would look like clean-shaven. I wouldn’t (almost _couldn’t_) do that either, but that’s just me. ETA: Though it would depend somewhat on the beard. If the ‘beard’ is just a soul patch, that doesn’t leave much to the imagination. I’ve never seen a friend’s spouse or anyone who became a friend’s spouse in attire that leaves little to doubt, though. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/76 "2021-01-15T16:44:54Z")
If anything, most people I know would be more offended if you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/77 "2021-01-15T16:46:03Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’ve never seen a friend’s spouse or anyone who became a friend’s spouse in attire that leaves little to doubt, though. Living at a beach one has a different experience of the bodies of one’s friends, acquaintances, and neighbors. Very little is left to anyone’s imagination. Be that for good or for ill. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/78 "2021-01-15T16:46:07Z")
If you play these types of games, you know what you are getting into. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/79 "2021-01-15T16:50:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If the people who got offended thought up the question themselves, then of course you’re right. But I would guess they were playing some sort of commercial game with all sorts of preprinted questions of which this was one. So that they didn’t choose to ask that question, but just happened to draw that card. I think that would only work if they were surprised that such a card was in the game. I envisioned one of those games that is intentionally somewhat raunchy, and that the people involved knew what they were getting into. I also tended to picture you having a set of cards that you could pick to play to make the other person answer or similar. If, on the other hand, it’s the first time they’d ever played it, and this is not similar to the other questions that had been asked in the game, I could see your point. Especially if @Asuka was the one to draw the card, or the question was read by someone else other than the friends who took offense. It also would only make any sense to me if the friend (and possibly his wife) were the only married people in the room (not counting the OP and any spouse). It would be even odder to get offended like that if there were other people the OP could have been talking about. Your overarching point is good, however. It would depend on the nature of the game and what they knew about it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431/80 "2021-01-15T17:00:51Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > If you play these types of games, you know what you are getting into. Agree in general… But as @BigT almost said, your comment is better rendered as: > If you play these types of games, you ought to know what you are getting into. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-morally-wrong-to-think-of-a-friends-spouse-significant-other-naked/930431.md?page=5)