# Is It More Shocking When Whites Show Bigotry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966 "2009-05-01T14:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/21 "2009-05-01T21:08:11Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > And as for the two conversations, the spirit of the terms “trashy people” and “ghetto niggers” were comparable in my view. Both wrong. Perhaps you had to be there. The receptionist was attempting to joke around. The Chilean was not. You’re not really talking about the spirit though are you? You’re talking about visceral reaction to hateful speech. One of the most common incidences of racism in my life is people talking plaintively about blacks and hispanics and their pathetic lives. ‘We’ build them public housing projects and they just destroy them and live in squalor anyway. ‘We’ give them extra points on the fireman test but they fail our test anyway. I hear that kind of talk really not very often, but it reminds me of your “trashy people” comment. It’s racist and ugly and completely uncomfortable to hear, but not really shocking. On the other hand, explicitly expressing your disdain for ghetto niggers is outrageous and shocking whether you’re joking or not. So I still think it’s more about the manifestation of the racism than whether its coming from whites or non-whites. And more to the point, if it’s really about whites and non-whites, it’s just your bias. There’s no intrinsic difference and I don`t believe most people have that bias either. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/22 "2009-05-01T21:25:43Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > So I still think it’s more about the manifestation of the racism than whether its coming from whites or non-whites. And more to the point, if it’s really about whites and non-whites, it’s just your bias. There’s no intrinsic difference and I don`t believe most people have that bias either. I admitted having this bias, but like Der Trihs I don’t believe it’s a particularly uncommon one. It’s just one that isn’t discussed by us because it’s un-PC. This thread show several examples of folks trying to justify “ethnic” bashing as opposed to race “bashing”. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/23 "2009-05-01T21:47:24Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > But ethnicity is no more a choice than race. I’m German. If I went around talking about dumb Dagos or whatever I don’t think that is better than if I went around saying those stupid Chinks. That doesn’t make any sense. Well, I agree that it’s bad to call someone a dumb Dago or a stupid Chink. But your OP says that the Chilean called them “trashy people.” To me this is on the level of “cheese-eating surrender monkeys.” It’s not polite, but I don’t think it’s as bad as calling someone a dumb Dago or a stupid Chink. ETA: I guess my point is that Americans make some pretty vicious comments towards the French, and while I don’t approve of this, this seems to be an acceptable part of our national discourse. So, I don’t really see the difference between that and your Chilean’s comments about Puerto Ricans. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/24 "2009-05-02T00:12:27Z")
> [@bup](#): > > If you see it on a 2009 Bentley Arnage, the driver’s a total asshole. Seriously, anyone who would mar a Bentley with a bumper-sticker is a total douchebag. It’s one thing to put it on a Sentra or an Accord, they’re not much to look at to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/25 "2009-05-02T00:14:54Z")
- - Just in case anyone didn’t get it. Bup’s example basically corrolates as saying white people are not allowed to be racist because they REALLY ARE better and as such should be held to higher expectations and because it’s not polite to rub it in the faces of those who are less than you. This topic is ruled by the tyranny of low expectations. Are white people better than black people in the way a Bentley is better than a Nissan Sentra? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/26 "2009-05-02T00:20:56Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I don’t consider Puerto Ricans and Chileans to be separate races or ethnicities. Obviously, there are cultural differences, but a Chilean insulting a Puerto Rican, to me, is more like a New Mexican insulting a Texan or an American making fun the French. It’s not the politest thing in the world, but it’s not the same thing as insulting someone explicitly because of their race. > > And as always, context matters. YMMV, of course. You do realize that Puerto Rico is both more ethnically and and geographically similar to the United than it is to Chile right? Do you see no difference between America and Chile? I mean Puerto Rico is a bit over 100 miles from Florida, while it is a bit over 1000 miles from Chile. Then there is the fact that Puerto Rico is part of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/27 "2009-05-02T00:27:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You do realize that Puerto Rico is both more ethnically and and geographically similar to the United than it is to Chile right? Do you see no difference between America and Chile? I mean Puerto Rico is a bit over 100 miles from Florida, while it is a bit over 1000 miles from Chile. Then there is the fact that Puerto Rico is part of the United States. Thank you for the geography lesson. Do I see no difference between America and Chile? :rolleyes: I’m not going to argue with strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/28 "2009-05-02T00:31:36Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Thank you for the geography lesson. Do I see no difference between America and Chile? :rolleyes: I’m not going to argue with strawmen. But they ARE ethnically different. That’s the point. They have a common language though slightly different dialects, and have some Spanish blood but are descended from completely different native ethnic groups. Taino and Caribe in Puerto Rico, I don’t know what in Chile. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/29 "2009-05-02T00:31:51Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Just in case anyone didn’t get it. Bup’s example basically corrolates as saying white people are not allowed to be racist because they REALLY ARE better and as such should be held to higher expectations and because it’s not polite to rub it in the faces of those who are less than you. This topic is ruled by the tyranny of low expectations. Are white people better than black people in the way a Bentley is better than a Nissan Sentra? I don’t know that he’s saying that. I think he was saying that typically white people have held more power in this country and that’s why we kind of recoil when we hear a white person using the n-word or telling a racist joke, and maybe we don’t when we hear a black person making fun of whites. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/30 "2009-05-02T00:33:11Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t know that he’s saying that. I think he was saying that typically white people have held more power in this country and that’s why we kind of recoil when we hear a white person using the n-word or telling a racist joke, and maybe we don’t when we hear a black person making fun of whites. Right, but it’s always been a very slim minority of white people who have held more power in this nation. There are more poor whites in this country than there are blacks of all economic classes. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/31 "2009-05-02T00:37:09Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > But they ARE ethnically different. That’s the point. They have a common language though slightly different dialects, and have some Spanish blood but are descended from completely different native ethnic groups. Taino and Caribe in Puerto Rico, I don’t know what in Chile. And the French and Americans are ethnically different if you want to go to that level. The OP said that the insult was aimed at Puerto Ricans. Not Taino, not Caribe, not blacks and not whites. But if you think that pointing out the physical location of Chile is some useful bit of argument, keep at it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/32 "2009-05-02T00:44:03Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Right, but it’s always been a very slim minority of white people who have held more power in this nation. There are more poor whites in this country than there are blacks of all economic classes. I don’t know that that’s true. Not every white person was rich, but poor whites weren’t enslaved, treated as subhuman, lynched, etc. After slavery, there weren’t Jim Crow laws telling you where you had to eat or sit on a bus if you were a poor white. Poor whites obviously didn’t have the same power as rich whites, but in general, black people had much less power than whites back then. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/33 "2009-05-02T01:04:06Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t know that he’s saying that. I think he was saying that typically white people have held more power in this country and that’s why we kind of recoil when we hear a white person using the n-word or telling a racist joke, and maybe we don’t when we hear a black person making fun of whites. Yes, thank you. I don’t think whites should be held to a better standard because they’re actually better, they’ve just historically held more power, prestige, and advantages. I think whites are watched more closely for racism because in this country they’ve never been victims of it. **mswas** , there may be more poor whites than there are total blacks, but none of a white person’s state is because of racial discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/34 "2009-05-02T01:23:24Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Yes, thank you. I don’t think whites should be held to a better standard because they’re actually better, they’ve just historically held more power, prestige, and advantages. I think whites are watched more closely for racism because in this country they’ve never been victims of it. So in other words, you believe yes, it is made to be a bigger deal when whites show bigotry as opposed to minorities. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/35 "2009-05-02T04:19:58Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > No sense in being pissed…this is your opportunity to explain the difference to them. For people who have not been to PR or exposed to many people from there, you can’t expect them to know the difference. I don’t know how well to phrase it, but I can at least expect them not to put a whole freaking nation as “ghetto/trashy/whatever lowest class possible/vulgar/etc.” And not to act surprised when they see someone who doesn’t fit that mold. And to not tell me that as if it were a compliment. Because it is not. **BrightNShiny** , I guess your point is that the comment in the OP is not insulting enough (trashy people)? 😕 Please consider that maybe in that case, the Chilean may have _toned it down_ because he/she was with someone else, and opted for a less strong word. Chilean and Puerto Ricans are different ethnicities, different nations, different cultures, etc. Many times, like you’ve typed and I said, the “teasing” and comments are not too deep nor intended to be too deep and prejudiced. But in other times, oh boy, they are real. And I fail to see what there is light-hearted on dismissing a whole nation of people as vulgar/uncouth/lowest of the low. Just because their actual skin color may vary or doesn’t fit in the black to white spectrum, it is not “light bashing”. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/36 "2009-05-02T05:16:58Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I don’t know how well to phrase it, but I can at least expect them not to put a whole freaking nation as “ghetto/trashy/whatever lowest class possible/vulgar/etc.” And not to act surprised when they see someone who doesn’t fit that mold. And to not tell me that as if it were a compliment. Because it is not. > > **BrightNShiny** , I guess your point is that the comment in the OP is not insulting enough (trashy people)? 😕 Ah, ok. I think I see where the confusion is coming in. This may be my local cultural context, but to me, the word trashy is often used in a joking way rather than a malicious way (like “cheese-eating surrender monkeys”). Now, it could well be that the speaker was trying to state that Puerto Ricans are innately trashy, which then, I would agree, that’s being malicious. We’re looking at this through another person’s perception filtered by our own perceptions, so it’s hard for me to tell. > [@](#): > > Please consider that maybe in that case, the Chilean may have _toned it down_ because he/she was with someone else, and opted for a less strong word. > > Chilean and Puerto Ricans are different ethnicities, different nations, different cultures, etc. Many times, like you’ve typed and I said, the “teasing” and comments are not too deep nor intended to be too deep and prejudiced. > > But in other times, oh boy, they are real. And I fail to see what there is light-hearted on dismissing a whole nation of people as vulgar/uncouth/lowest of the low. Just because their actual skin color may vary or doesn’t fit in the black to white spectrum, it is not “light bashing”. I’ve already stated that I don’t approve of those type of comments in any case, so I don’t appreciate this. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/37 "2009-05-02T11:47:41Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Most white people are willing to give any minority group a pass if they make a racist comment. I’ve heard minorities make comments that would make most racist whites blush and they almost never get called on it. Almost as if their view is more rational and legitimate than a white person’s views. It seems to me the people who are most shocked by racist comments are the least likely to have ever lived around or interacted much with minority groups and, thus, are more willing to hear out the views of a minority group. This reminds me of a [study I’d read](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/01/people_overestimate_their_reactions_to_racism.php)on [one of my favourite blogs](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/). It seems that random white people are very likely to give another white guy “a pass” at displaying racism towards a random black guy; but that’s not all, other (non-black) minorities were tested to equally give the white guy “a pass” on anti-black racism too. I suspect if this test were preformed on blacks, testing for racism against whites (or whatever), they would probably perform the same. The kicker is that afterwards, everyone who was tested filled out a form which asked them how they think they would react toward a racist display. Most said that they would react negatively, which was not held true by the testing. No matter how much everyone publicly and loudly claims that they find racism to be shocking or disgusting, tests have shown that people tend to overestimate their reactions to racism. [Ed](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/about.php) summed it up best by saying:[ > [@](#): > > people really are terrible at predicting the extent to which racist comments would upset them and whether they would distance themselves from people who said such comments. The two mistakes are probably related - people think that they would reject racism because they overestimate how much it would really affect them. ]([http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/01/people\_overestimate\_their\_reactions\_to\_racism.php](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/01/people_overestimate_their_reactions_to_racism.php)) ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/38 "2009-05-02T12:59:12Z")
I would just like to add something about my own personal opinion. Racism (or sexism, homophobia, general bigotry, etc) is disgusting. It’s sad that we (by ‘we’ I mean society) don’t condemn public displays of it until it is accompanied by threats or acts of violence. I’d like to think that I would stand up against bigotry in all forms whenever I encounter it, but that is not true. I personally know of instances where people have displayed homophobic comments and I had kept my mouth shut; I guess since I’m not gay, myself, I felt I can just ignore the person without getting myself involved… I am not proud of my actions but we need to be self-aware of our actions if we are to address them. People tend to ignore bigoted acts if they are not the targets. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/39 "2009-05-02T13:14:20Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > So in other words, you believe yes, it is made to be a bigger deal when whites show bigotry as opposed to minorities. Yeah, I do. I’m still not sure if it’s right or not. But I experience it myself - I get more offended by a white person hating on other races than other races hating on each other. Wow that sounds off. Maybe it’s my own white guilt, and being descended from some pretty racist whites. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/40 "2009-05-02T13:39:00Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t know that that’s true. Not every white person was rich, but poor whites weren’t enslaved, treated as subhuman, lynched, etc. After slavery, there weren’t Jim Crow laws telling you where you had to eat or sit on a bus if you were a poor white. Poor whites obviously didn’t have the same power as rich whites, but in general, black people had much less power than whites back then. Back then, but not now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966.md?page=3)