# Is It More Shocking When Whites Show Bigotry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966 "2009-05-01T14:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/41 "2009-05-02T13:40:21Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **mswas** , there may be more poor whites than there are total blacks, but none of a white person’s state is because of racial discrimination. Actually today it is, they are the only impoverished subgroup in America that does not benefit from Affirmative Action. So today poor whites are in that state partially because of racial discriminination. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/42 "2009-05-02T17:33:16Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Back then, but not now. Well, yeah, but we don’t exist in a historical vacuum. Obviously, you’re going to have some impressions if a white guy tells a racist joke about blacks than if a black person makes some remark about how lame white guys are because of all the cultural context. It’s not like these attitudes just suddenly disappear because we get enlightened all of a sudden. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/43 "2009-05-02T19:42:02Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Yeah, I do. I’m still not sure if it’s right or not. But I experience it myself - I get more offended by a white person hating on other races than other races hating on each other. > > Wow that sounds off. Maybe it’s my own white guilt, and being descended from some pretty racist whites. Sounds more like self hatred. Why would you feel guilty about being descended from racists. Take off the goggles and look around…whites are NOT the only race that has practiced racism or slavery (including present times). There are no noble races so no need to self flagellate ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/44 "2009-05-02T19:47:24Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, yeah, but we don’t exist in a historical vacuum. Obviously, you’re going to have some impressions if a white guy tells a racist joke about blacks than if a black person makes some remark about how lame white guys are because of all the cultural context. It’s not like these attitudes just suddenly disappear because we get enlightened all of a sudden. Are you assuming that the blacks making those comments are not as guilty as the whites? If anything it’s more disgusting when a historically oppressed group resorts to racist comments. Seems they should know better because of their past experiences. That being said, I’ve always found it amusing to listen to blacks insult asians or hispanics but then get offended by comments that are not necessarily racist. Many blacks have so embraced the victim mentality that they try to find evidence of racism even when none exists. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/45 "2009-05-02T19:48:11Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, yeah, but we don’t exist in a historical vacuum. Obviously, you’re going to have some impressions if a white guy tells a racist joke about blacks than if a black person makes some remark about how lame white guys are because of all the cultural context. It’s not like these attitudes just suddenly disappear because we get enlightened all of a sudden. But the expectation is for white people to be enlightened all of a sudden but not blacks. Seems kind of unfair to both sides right? It still assumes that white people are superior. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/46 "2009-05-02T20:06:40Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > This reminds me of a [study I’d read](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/01/people_overestimate_their_reactions_to_racism.php)on [one of my favourite blogs](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/). It seems that random white people are very likely to give another white guy “a pass” at displaying racism towards a random black guy; but that’s not all, other (non-black) minorities were tested to equally give the white guy “a pass” on anti-black racism too. I suspect if this test were preformed on blacks, testing for racism against whites (or whatever), they would probably perform the same. > > The kicker is that afterwards, everyone who was tested filled out a form which asked them how they think they would react toward a racist display. Most said that they would react negatively, which was not held true by the testing. > > No matter how much everyone publicly and loudly claims that they find racism to be shocking or disgusting, tests have shown that people tend to overestimate their reactions to racism. [Ed](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/about.php) summed it up best by saying:[URL=“[http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/01/people\_overestimate\_their\_reactions\_to\_racism.php](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/01/people_overestimate_their_reactions_to_racism.php)”] But I really don’t see how you can test for true reactions. If I read the study right, they were trying to gage how a person would react to a racist statement from someone of their own race. They then announced that most of the subjects didn’t react with anger to the statement. The thing is in a public setting, I think most people wouldn’t act outraged at the statement. Most likely, they would just pass over it. Do you really think the average person would jump to their feet, point at the offender and say, “That is a racist statement, and I insist that you retract it at once!! And I insist you apologize once my minority brother returns to this room, you cowardly swine!” No, of course not. But that doesn’t mean they agreed with the racist thought. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/47 "2009-05-03T13:22:54Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > But I really don’t see how you can test for true reactions. If I read the study right, they were trying to gage how a person would react to a racist statement from someone of their own race. They then announced that most of the subjects didn’t react with anger to the statement. The thing is in a public setting, I think most people wouldn’t act outraged at the statement. Most likely, they would just pass over it. Do you really think the average person would jump to their feet, point at the offender and say, “That is a racist statement, and I insist that you retract it at once!! And I insist you apologize once my minority brother returns to this room, you cowardly swine!” No, of course not. But that doesn’t mean they agreed with the racist thought. Their reaction to the scene was not gauged by whether or not they said: “That is a racist statement, and I insist that you retract it at once!! And I insist you apologize once my minority brother returns to this room, you cowardly swine!” It was gauged by them filling out a “survey about their current state of mind” and they were also asked to choose between the racist and the black guy to help them complete a word task. > [@](#): > > Expectedly, forecasters said that they would be very upset by either racist slur. In reality, the experiencers were largely indifferent, and those who heard negative remarks were actually no more distressed than those whose partners hadn’t said anything at all. Likewise, only about 10-20% of the forecasters said that they would choose the white person as their partner over the black one but a much higher 63% of the experiencers actually did so. If anything, they were more likely to pick their white associate if they made a racist slur than if they said nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/48 "2009-05-03T19:56:20Z")
I don’t believe someone else’s racial slur would ruin someone’s whole day enough to note it on a questionaire about one’s state of mind. They might even believe that bringing up the subject would be tattling, which is looked down upon in many circles. About the choosing of task partners, I suppose is slightly more revealing. It’s well known people tend to stick to those of their own race. Check out the lunch tables at any intergrated school. Whites tend to eat with whites, blacks tend to eat with blacks. Right now, that’s how it is. But compare that to how it was, when it took state militia to get blacks into white schools. Relations between the races are changing slowly, but changing for the better. Years ago, that test participant would’ve called that knee bumper “clumsy nigger” to the knee bumper’s face. You can bet the test subjects would’ve been shocked now. Not so much years ago. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/49 "2009-05-03T21:13:18Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Check out the lunch tables at any intergrated school. Whites tend to eat with whites, blacks tend to eat with blacks. Right now, that’s how it is. Is that really true or is that one of those things that is just ‘understood’ to be true? I see kids hanging out with kids of other races regularly these days. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/50 "2009-05-04T02:32:40Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Is that really true or is that one of those things that is just ‘understood’ to be true? I see kids hanging out with kids of other races regularly these days. I understood it from a “60 Minutes” piece a few years ago. If the situation is changed now, all the better. I live in a mixed neighborhood. While the different races do interact, groups hanging out together tend to be of the same race. That’s just my observation however. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/51 "2009-05-04T22:00:29Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I don’t believe someone else’s racial slur would ruin someone’s whole day enough to note it on a questionaire about one’s state of mind. They might even believe that bringing up the subject would be tattling, which is looked down upon in many circles. The survey was just to measure their state of mind (it did not have the ability to “tattle” on anyone); the “forecasters” (the group who were merely told the scenario) reported that they would be very upset by either racist slur, however the “experiencers” (those who had the scenario play out in front of them) reported no distress. > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > About the choosing of task partners, I suppose is slightly more revealing. It’s well known people tend to stick to those of their own race. Check out the lunch tables at any intergrated school. Whites tend to eat with whites, blacks tend to eat with blacks. Right now, that’s how it is. Kawakami recruited 120 volunteers of various races (apart from black) in this experiment. He also measured/compared the results of choosing partners between various [degrees of statements (none/racist/very racist).](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/Shunning_racism.jpg) This was a well thought out experiment. Opposed to the OP, it appears that whites showing bigotry do get “passes.” ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/52 "2009-05-06T12:20:08Z")
The worst racist I have ever met in my life was an ex proffessional athlete who publicly left his sport because of racism(Though in confidence he admitted that he wasn’t really that good at his sport) and got much publicity because of his "stand"against racisim(And I believe some awards). He was of Nigerian descent raised in England by Irish foster parents. There were only three races in the world the Whites,the Blacks and the Irish(I swear to you I’m not kidding) Jesus,Cleopatra etc were black. All of the ills and evils of the world now and throughout history were and are the fault of white people except the Irish. Sometimes he even questioned himself as to whether he himself was racist,but luckily he always gave himself the ,for him,right answer. He was as big a bigot as any Ku Klux Klan member. I can understand that anyone reading this will find my account far fetched and I can totally understand that but I have told it EXACTLY as it is. To question his beliefs was to invite violence though I did get him to admit that Cleo wasn’t black but he was adamant about Christ(Well he wasn’t white was he?) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/53 "2009-05-06T13:59:09Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > To question his beliefs was to invite violence though I did get him to admit that Cleo wasn’t black but he was adamant about Christ(Well he wasn’t white was he?) Irish, actually. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/54 "2009-05-06T16:56:10Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Irish, actually. I, sooooo, was going to say that. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/55 "2009-05-06T17:18:53Z")
**Side note** : Cleo is probably [100% ethnically Greek](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510497). King tut however is a different story, he can fit into whatever category you want depending on how you define “Black” or “White”. **Second side note** : We tend to [change our definitions](http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/12/social_status_shapes_racial_identity.php) of “Black” and “White” depending on the social status of the subject(s); with high social status being considered as “white” (or lighter), and low social status being seen as “Black” (or darker). Race-ology is not really a science. er… wrong thread methinks ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966/56 "2009-05-08T03:34:12Z")
In one of Barack Obama’s books, he mentions how shocked he was to find that, in Kenya, various black tribes describe each other in ways that would make a Klansman blush. It’s routine for one black African tribe to describe another as hopelessly lazy, or stupid, or dishonest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-more-shocking-when-whites-show-bigotry/494966.md?page=2)