# Is it normal to be dismissed from a job for no reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2015, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396 "2015-02-23T09:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/81 "2015-02-25T08:35:05Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > 1. They made it clear it isn’t performance related > 2. You indicate you wish to learn how to “conduct yourself better” in future jobs > 3. They don’t want to give you an exit interview > 4. They won’t give you a follow-up with your manager > 5. They won’t give you a letter or recommendation or a reference > 6. Gossip hasn’t “trickled down” > > I don’t have a dog in your fight, but Helen Keller could see this one. No one is baffled as to why you were let go, and deep down, neither are you. It’s obvious to me too why the OP was fired. But I doubt it is obvious to the OP. (1) The OP makes zero effort to be liked and get along with others and is paranoid about office socializing _and_ (2) has not made himself/herself indispensable to the company. Each employee must do at least one of those two tasks at every workplace. Preferably both. If an employee shows up on time and do the job and is easy to work with, the employee would still have the job. Or, if the employee is the only person who can work the magic process, the employee would still have a job. If an employee doesn’t do either of those, he/she will be fired, probably before the end of two years. So, OP, the diagnosis is that you are very awkward socially. I hope there is something you can do about it, but I’ve known plenty of people who couldn’t do anything about being socially inept. I wish you the best. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/82 "2015-02-25T14:10:05Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m sure your experience differs, but mine is that restructuring type layoffs are pretty much performance independent - except for superstars. When we had one because a project got cancelled most everyone working on the project got notices… Yep, the project world is a bit different. If large reductions are needed the easiest, less disruptive and most defensible route is to eliminate the positions associated with a particular project when it winds down - for exactly the reasons you mentioined. I got caught in one of those once. That’s why I always try to keep some operational responsibilities in my job duties now. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/83 "2015-02-25T14:46:52Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Or she may have had Tourette’s syndrome. If this was the case, and she was diagnosed, accommodations would need to be made, or she would have legitimate grounds for a lawsuit. She didn’t have Tourette’s syndrome. She enjoyed meowing. Not everyone has a condition or is disabled. Being retarded puts you in a protected class. Being a garden variety idiot who deliberately makes bad choices does not. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/84 "2015-02-25T15:36:24Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > But what did SHE say when you asked her about it? How on earth did she explain it? “Sometimes I like to meow.” > > Was she actually Henrietta Pussycat from Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood? (If so, you are a monster.) At first we though she had a cat on her, so I called her in and told her that she didn’t have to worry about any action being taken if the answer was yes, that I am an animal lover also and that while I understood that it’s hard to be separated from your pets during the day we can’t allow everyone’s pets at work - just one (my bosses dog is there when he is, and the dog hates cats). I told her I didn’t want her cat to get hurt, she could fess up and while she would have to bring the cat home and couldn’t do it ever again, she wouldn’t be in any sort of trouble. It was still between us at this point. My boss wasn’t involved yet. She told me she didn’t have a cat on her and her cat was at home. It became clear during the conversation that her love for cats was off the charts. She identified with them. She told me how she meowed back and forth with her cat, how they were bonded and how meowing soothed her. I explained, nicely, that while that particular action may soothe her it was disturbing her coworkers and causing a disruption. I emphasized that she was liked in the office but that perhaps she could meow outside on her breaks or only while in the bathroom and to please contain herself while she was at her desk. Fast forward a few more talks about the meowing, people getting tired of it, the situation taking up more and more of my time, reseating people, dealing with ongoing complaints, a couple of office tiffs (a fed up person telling her off - it really was annoying as shit), talking about alternate behaviors (meow silently, meditate and meow in your mind, are you not at all concerned about the effect your actions are having on the office as a whole?, this is disruptive, etc). Nothing was getting through. She felt that because he family and friends accepted her behavior, we should too. I explained the difference between work and personal life for the umpteenth time. “My family is ok with it” and “It doesn’t bother my friends” (who were all cat fanatics) are not good responses to that particular discussion. You know the look on someone’s face when there is no recognition or acceptance or acknowledgment that their actions are having a negative effect on a group as a whole and you know that nothing you say or do will bring them to the light? That was the look on her face. Nothing was going to change. I told my boss, who had gotten wind of the meower a few weeks earlier, and he said “get rid of her”. I didn’t want to deal with her excuses any more, nor did I wish to continue to beat a dead horse by discussing the matter further so I made up a fake non-arguable excuse to let her go. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/85 "2015-02-25T16:22:09Z")
You know, sometimes I think we public librarians have cornered the market on experiencing weird things at work. Thank you for reminding me that there is always something new to discover. 🙂 Seriously, that one is baffling. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/86 "2015-02-25T16:37:23Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > You know, sometimes I think we public librarians have cornered the market on experiencing weird things at work. Back in the 1970’s my cousin and I went to one of those movie nights at the library. I think it was a Charlie Chaplain silent film. Anyway, we both had really long straight hair and we were sitting there enjoying the film. I felt something irritating so I moved my hair to the side. I settled down again. Then I glance at my cousin and I see that the guy behind her has a bunch of her hair in his mouth and was sucking on it. We both wore our hair in a tight topknot for a good month after that. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/87 "2015-02-25T19:51:34Z")
I shit you not, a member of the public just wandered by my desk making a noise that I swear to god was a meow. I thought for a moment that I had gone totally bonkers. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/88 "2015-02-25T20:03:20Z")
> [@Syne](#): > > Sounds like she had a legitimate anxiety disorder that manifested itself in making a specific noise, and you fired her for it. Stay classy I guess. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/89 "2015-02-25T20:06:53Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > She didn’t have Tourette’s syndrome. She enjoyed meowing. > > Not everyone has a condition or is disabled. > > Being retarded puts you in a protected class. Being a garden variety idiot who deliberately makes bad choices does not. From your description of the conversation you had with her, I still think it’s a wide open possibility that this was not a behavior she had real control over. But you were there and we weren’t so I’ll just leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/90 "2015-02-25T20:08:04Z")
Unless she self-identified as having a medical condition, the employer can’t assume she does. She didn’t advance that as a possibility in repeated talks with her supervisor, so the “stay classy” criticism seems unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/91 "2015-02-25T20:34:58Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I shit you not, a member of the public just wandered by my desk making a noise that I swear to god was a meow. I thought for a moment that I had gone totally bonkers. I would have had trouble keeping a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/92 "2015-02-25T20:54:13Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I shit you not, a member of the public just wandered by my desk making a noise that I swear to god was a meow. I thought for a moment that I had gone totally bonkers. I’m going to start doing that in libraries, just as I walk past librarian desks. If others do it, too, it can then be A Thing at librarian conventions! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/93 "2015-02-25T21:20:42Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Wow, what a crappy story. I can’t help but think the reason you were put through all that bullshit is that there was some sort of disagreement among the management and they couldn’t come to a decision over how to replace you, and so the decision just got put off and put off until finally someone managed to bulldoze through the “make him quit” idea. > > What a crock. What’s wrong with “Hey, thanks for your work but we’re going in another direction with the blah-blah-blah and the xmls and the javas and whatever, so see ya later, we’d show you to the door but you’re already working remotely…so…anyway…kthxbai”. Thanks for that. And yeah, no shit. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/94 "2015-02-25T22:33:45Z")
> [@Syne](#): > > A few months ago I was dismissed from my job of 2+ years for no reason. They veiled it as a ‘restructuring’ that affected no other employee but me. When asked for the motivating factors behind the restructuring, management was evasive. I was told it was not performance related. > > Is it wrong of me to feel like I am owed a legit reason here? Lying to me and providing no feedback is not truthful, and while it might be liability-limiting, I find the dishonesty unprofessional. > > If I am going to move forward and learn to conduct myself better in future jobs, I rely on past employers to provide feedback to help prevent repeating the same mistakes. My request for an exit interview was denied. My request for a follow-up with my manager was denied. My request for a letter of recommendation and a reference was denied. The most they would give me is a confirmation of employment. Yet, they doggedly maintain I did nothing wrong. > > I qualify for unemployment, but am not eligible for legal recourse in my province, so I am not looking for that… Just wondering if this is standard practice. I still talk to a lot of people from this workplace and my dismissal left everyone baffled. Gossip hasn’t trickled down to the rank and file, so whoever orchestrated it was surgical about it. > > Anyways, this is a debate forum, not about me… So I would ask the question of whether employers have an ethical obligation to provide employees with honest feedback upon termination? It sounds to me like you GOT a reason, and you disbelieve it, and are trying to make it into some moral failing on their part. You want them to follow your program, not theirs. Restructurings can, indeed, eliminate only one person. Rare, but, hey, you’re using up their money, and they don’t find your services worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Syne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Syne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syne)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/95 "2015-02-25T22:37:53Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s obvious to me too why the OP was fired. But I doubt it is obvious to the OP. (1) The OP makes zero effort to be liked and get along with others and is paranoid about office socializing _and_ (2) has not made himself/herself indispensable to the company. Each employee must do at least one of those two tasks at every workplace. Preferably both. > > If an employee shows up on time and do the job and is easy to work with, the employee would still have the job. Or, if the employee is the only person who can work the magic process, the employee would still have a job. If an employee doesn’t do either of those, he/she will be fired, probably before the end of two years. > > So, OP, the diagnosis is that you are very awkward socially. I hope there is something you can do about it, but I’ve known plenty of people who couldn’t do anything about being socially inept. I wish you the best. Your diagnosis is based on your own projections and my own voluntary disclosure. I kept the details vague on purpose to foster discussion about the ethics of dismissing without cause or reason. Sorry but you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I am a very social person, which probably got me into more trouble than not. In fact, I suspect an office romance contributed to my dismissal, which doesn’t really mesh with your assessment of me. These are the types of things I leave out on purpose to avoid pointless speculation. If you want more information about my personal situation, I can give it… but that’s not really the point of this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Syne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Syne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syne)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/96 "2015-02-25T22:48:48Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > It sounds to me like you GOT a reason, and you disbelieve it, and are trying to make it into some moral failing on their part. > You want them to follow your program, not theirs. Restructurings can, indeed, eliminate only one person. Rare, but, hey, you’re using up their money, and they don’t find your services worth it. I did not get a reason. Let me paste an excerpt from an e-mail I just got back from my former boss. \*\* "My personal policy is not to provide references, but [name omitted] was also your manager at [company omitted] and he might be open to the possibility as an alternative to the Confirmation of Employment you’ve received already. As you know, the position was eliminated and unfortunately we didn’t have another role that was available for you. I know you’re struggling to find an alternative explanation, but sometimes the simplest answer is actually the correct one."\*\* That’s the sort of denial I am dealing with 2 months after being dismissed - I’m talking a complete stonewalling of any feedback that might help me professionally. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/97 "2015-02-25T22:59:09Z")
There’s no upside to giving you feedback, and a tremendous downside to the employer. It’s already been mentioned by others, but telling you why you’re being dismissed is basically an invitation for you to call them on it in a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/98 "2015-02-25T23:36:51Z")
> [@Syne](#): > > **As you know, the position was eliminated and unfortunately we didn’t have another role that was available for you. I know you’re struggling to find an alternative explanation, but sometimes the simplest answer is actually the correct one."** > > That’s the sort of denial I am dealing with 2 months after being dismissed - I’m talking a complete stonewalling of any feedback that might help me professionally. it is possibly a true explanation. Managers get given headcount, which depends on many things, and if your manager lost a person someone had to go. Now if things were tight in your company and there was nothing open, it is unlikely they’d fire someone to give you a slot. If they are hiring like crazy and can’t find a slot it is a different story. If your office romance ate up management time, however, what happened is not surprising. Managers want workers to make their lives easier, not harder. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/99 "2015-02-25T23:49:39Z")
> [@Syne](#): > > I did not get a reason. Let me paste an excerpt from an e-mail I just got back from my former boss. > \*\* > "My personal policy is not to provide references, but [name omitted] was also your manager at [company omitted] and he might be open to the possibility as an alternative to the Confirmation of Employment you’ve received already. > > As you know, the position was eliminated and unfortunately we didn’t have another role that was available for you. I know you’re struggling to find an alternative explanation, but sometimes the simplest answer is actually the correct one."\*\* > > That’s the sort of denial I am dealing with 2 months after being dismissed - I’m talking a complete stonewalling of any feedback that might help me professionally. If you behaved at your workplace the way you appear to be behaving now–not accepting what people say at face value, hounding them for more information (TWO MONTHS! Jesus!), whining when that more information (that may not even exist) is not forthcoming, failing to grasp basic ideas about what you are owed, inability to understand reasons others are acting as they do, etc.–then it’s no wonder you were terminated. It isn’t their job to help you professionally. Seriously, it’s no one’s job but yours (okay, I suppose you could hire a life coach or something). If they said tomorrow “Hey, Syne, the reason you were fired is that everyone here hated you,” would that help you professionally? Especially given that then you’d be lying if you went to your next interview and said, “I was let go because of restructuring.” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396/100 "2015-02-25T23:56:00Z")
> [@Syne](#): > > I did not get a reason. > > **["]As you know, the position was eliminated …** How do you reconcile those two sentences? Your position was eliminated. That’s your reason. Can you use your imagination and indulge me - what reason could they give that would be satisfactory to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-normal-to-be-dismissed-from-a-job-for-no-reason/713396.md?page=6)