# Is it o.k. for Panera to be out of Bread Bowls? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 31, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911 "2012-07-31T01:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/61 "2012-07-31T20:37:55Z")
“You’re still welcome to stare at my tits, though!” _\_ ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/62 "2012-07-31T21:39:50Z")
I am a former Panera Bread GM. Here is the straight Dough§. A manager, usually an assistant or shift manager order the dough from a central facility, the FDF, fresh Dough Facility. The FDF SELLS the dough to company and franchise Bakery Cafes. Café’s are supposed to have a certain amount left at end of each day; The amount varies by product and by Bakery/Café volume. For bread bowls the “display allowance is between 8-12. This number gets run through a number crunching machine that operates behind a magical curtain and credits cafes back the TARGET leftover amount. A Bakery/Café could have a huge order for a particular product (bread bowls…bagels, pumpkin muffies etc) BUT…most (all in St Louis area) Bakery Cafes have, in addition to the overnight Baker, a DAY baker to bake as product is getting low or runs out. Keep in mind they have the dough onsite for the next days bake so they could pull some, proof it and bake the needed product. This does “rob Peter to pay Paul” and necessitates a manager adjusting future dough orders (Pan-Ups). Lazy managers wont adjust/call mid day production. Panera runs a VERY tight ship when it comes to Food cost and Labor…if you are in the F&B business you would be astounded by how low both percentages are. If you haven’t also caught on they make $$ selling the dough to Company Cafes and franchisees. Any leftover bakery product at the end of each day gets donated to food pantries and food banks. Panera used to be a great place to work…until they started cutting wages and benefits. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/63 "2012-07-31T21:41:05Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “You’re still welcome to stare at my tits, though!” _\_ That’s gold, Jerry. GOLD! ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/64 "2012-07-31T22:42:44Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Does Panera make the bread on site? They will, after all, then have a limit to how much they can make, regardless of how high the demand is. As far as I know everything is baked on site but the dough is delivered daily. It’s not all that unusual for Panera to run out of things. I’ve never found it to be the same thing consistently however. Sometimes it’s bread bowls, sometimes it’s turkey, sometimes it’s chocolate chip cookies. They have a lot of options and I think it’s unrealistic for them to be able to both provide food as fresh as theirs and never run out of anything unless you expect them to produce a lot of waste daily, in which case their already expensive items would need to be even more expensive. They plan to the best of their ability. > [@urban1a](#): > > I am a fan of KFC crispy chicken, not the original stuff. Very often, however, I go to a KFC (3 sort of close to me) around noon and they are out of the crispy. I’m not sure whether it’s management or the staff, but you’d think that they would have plenty of all kinds of chicken at lunch time. Usually, I’ll just drive off.Bob The three KFC’s closest to me were shut down for this. One of my friends managed a location but wisely jumped ship when he saw it coming. The franchise owner was very cheap and had a zero waste policy. If they had to throw out chicken it was a fire-able offense. This was in conflict with KFC’s requirement customers be served within x minutes. In order to achieve zero waste the managers wouldn’t prepare more then the absolute minimum. Meaning if a large order came in they’d have to prepare and cook it. If frozen to cooked takes 15 minutes there was no way to meet their corporate obligations. After 6 inspections in a row failing the serving metrics they pulled the franchise license. I nor the franchise owner saw that coming. I figured no way they are going to close down restaurants just because they suck if they are getting their franchise payments on time. KFC has standards who knew. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/65 "2012-07-31T23:39:07Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I can assure you that’s what they were doing. What they said might be subject to interpretation. > > Properly cleaning a shake machine is a real pain in the ass. Shutting it down early and starting the cleaning process gives you a real head start in terms of getting out on time/early. Most places say that they can’t break them down early, but people always do, hoping that nobody orders a shake in the last 15 minutes they’re open. Somehow it still happens even at 24hr locations. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/66 "2012-08-01T02:50:26Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > The three KFC’s closest to me were shut down for this. One of my friends managed a location but wisely jumped ship when he saw it coming. The franchise owner was very cheap and had a zero waste policy. If they had to throw out chicken it was a fire-able offense. This was in conflict with KFC’s requirement customers be served within x minutes. In order to achieve zero waste the managers wouldn’t prepare more then the absolute minimum. Meaning if a large order came in they’d have to prepare and cook it. If frozen to cooked takes 15 minutes there was no way to meet their corporate obligations. After 6 inspections in a row failing the serving metrics they pulled the franchise license. There wer two KFC’s near my work, neither of which I had a problem with, but they both got shut down out of the blue. The one near my house is still open and was recently remodeled, yet they always have availability and consistency issues. When it comes down to cutting costs and increasing profits, it’s a VERY hard thing to have just enough on hand and not too much. This applies to almost all food operations that have to have items cooked and ready. I wish someone with knowledge of how this sort of thing happens at a Raisin’ Cane’s would chime in. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/67 "2012-08-01T02:55:08Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Somehow it still happens even at 24hr locations. Most likely, the health codes require a cleaning after a certain time interval. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/68 "2012-08-01T02:56:45Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Somehow it still happens even at 24hr locations. I assume you’re talking about late night as well? They have to clean them sometime. Running them non-stop for days is simply not an option. The care of dairy machines is the stuff of legend in any well maintained fast food place, if you only have one, and cannot therefore be cleaning the backup while using the other, it’s a pain in the ass. You have someone doing the final dishes for the night, but you can’t just throw all the shake machine parts in with the greasy stuff to wash. There’s the rinsing of the machine and all sorts of clean up to do. At least it’s being cleaned properly if you’re denied a shake late at night. The alternative of just not washing it that night would be much worse for all involved. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/69 "2012-08-01T02:57:59Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Most likely, the health codes require a cleaning after a certain time interval. You managed to beat me to it. Are you subscribed to this thread? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/70 "2012-08-01T03:03:43Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > You managed to beat me to it. Are you subscribed to this thread? 😃 No, just nothing else to do but hit “New Posts” every two minutes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/71 "2012-08-01T03:14:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > No, just nothing else to do but hit “New Posts” every two minutes. 😃 Start a new thread in the same vein then. The OP I think has been answered here, and I feel bad for hijacking so much. Do it. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/72 "2012-08-01T03:30:25Z")
> [@Aeris](#): > > But it’s in their name. Panera _Bread_. If you go to the website in their About Us section, the first two sentences are “We are Panera. We are bakers of bread.” So I would argue that it is like KFC running out of chicken. But they still have bread. All kinds of bread. It doesn’t say Panera Bread Bowls. I just don’t expect them to have every kind of bread all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/73 "2012-08-01T05:14:48Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I can assure you that’s what they were doing. What they said might be subject to interpretation. > > Properly cleaning a shake machine is a real pain in the ass. Shutting it down early and starting the cleaning process gives you a real head start in terms of getting out on time/early. Most places say that they can’t break them down early, but people always do, hoping that nobody orders a shake in the last 15 minutes they’re open. What irks me is when you _do_ happen to order a shake 15min til closing; they give you the bull shit line “Sorry, our shake machine is broke.” No, you ass! You’re cleaning it. If they were honest with me, I could deal with that. But don’t frig’n lie to me like I’m a dumb ass. Another one: I pull in to a Wendy’s at 9:30pm (like I often used to do for lunch break) I walk up to the door and it’s locked. Inside, I see a teenaged girl with a vacuum. I knock on the door to get het attention. Her: Sorry sir, the lobby is closed Me: [points to sign on door] The sign says the lobby doesn’t close till 10pm Her: No, the sign is wrong. We always close the lobby at 9:30 Me (Sigh) What makes this so fucking comical is I used to be a regular there. I work nights and would go there about two or three times a week. AND WAS SERVED NUMEROUS TIMES BY SAID TEENAGE GIRL!!. AT, YOU GUESSED IT, 9:30PM EVERY NIGHT I WENT!! ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/74 "2012-08-01T05:57:35Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > What irks me is when you _do_ happen to order a shake 15min til closing; they give you the bull shit line “Sorry, our shake machine is broke.” > > No, you ass! You’re cleaning it. > > If they were honest with me, I could deal with that. But don’t frig’n lie to me like I’m a dumb ass. They would love to tell you the truth, but they can’t. They’re not allowed to state that they’re breaking company policy for obvious reasons. The staff is pressured by the manager to get as many people off the clock as fast as possible. The managers know you can’t shut down the shake machine early, but they also know it has to happen sometimes in order to get people off the clock on time. You have NO idea how strict they can be about this. Think screaming sessions about one minute clock discrepancies. Corporate says that they serve every product untill the very last minute that the store is open, yet hold the managers accountable to labor costs that do not allow cleaning the shake machine only after the store is closed. Yes, things are THAT closely controlled. Closers at my store were faced with this: Do the usual break downs, and clean the shake machine after actual close, and incur the wrath of the GM for a few minutes of work over what is ideal in order to do the job properly. He then gets heat for the extra man hours that the entire crew had to stay for. Or, clean the shake machine at 10 or 15 till close and hope that nobody needs a shake fix this late. If they do, the machine is “inoperable” AKA torn apart. Most people just accept it and get something else. This method pleases both the employees’ boss (the GM) and his bosses. Which is the best choice? Holy shit… it was YOU that was coming through the drive through every night needing a Jamocha… **Shakes** … I should have known. ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/75 "2012-08-01T06:17:06Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > What irks me is when you _do_ happen to order a shake 15min til closing; they give you the bull shit line “Sorry, our shake machine is broke.” > > No, you ass! You’re cleaning it. > > If they were honest with me, I could deal with that. But don’t frig’n lie to me like I’m a dumb ass. This was already addressed: > [@Kimballkid](#): > > Maybe they meant they ‘broke them down’ to clean them. There is no motive on the food worker’s part to explain the operation to you. > [@voltaire](#): > > LOL, first-world problems! For real. It’s astonishing to me how entitled some of you feel. If you absolutely have to have a bread bowl/fried chicken/milkshake and can’t possibly be bothered to drive on to another location try making it at home. As an added bonus your home version will be healthier unless you go out of your way to make it less so! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/76 "2012-08-01T12:03:14Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > For real. > > It’s astonishing to me how entitled some of you feel. If you absolutely have to have a bread bowl/fried chicken/milkshake and can’t possibly be bothered to drive on to another location try making it at home. First we weren’t supposed to argue if the fast food restaurant supports hateful policies, now we’re not even supposed to complain if the fast food chain doesn’t sell the food it claims to sell? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/77 "2012-08-01T13:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The staff is pressured by the manager to get as many people off the clock as fast as possible. The managers know you can’t shut down the shake machine early, but they also know it has to happen sometimes in order to get people off the clock on time. You have NO idea how strict they can be about this. Think screaming sessions about one minute clock discrepancies. Exactly. Not too long ago, a district manager had a serious freak out when he discovered that we’d run a 102% labor on a Monday. He then FORCED our general manager to shave over 70 hours off the schedule, mostly over the weekend and forcing us to run very short. Thing is it’s impossible to have labor that high. We knew it and he should have known it. Turns out he was wrong - there was some kind of glitch in their new system. Never apologized as far as I know. Fucking asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/78 "2012-08-01T14:11:02Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > It’s astonishing to me how entitled some of you feel. If you absolutely have to have a bread bowl/fried chicken/milkshake and can’t possibly be bothered to drive on to another location try making it at home. As an added bonus your home version will be healthier unless you go out of your way to make it less so! If I drive to the next location for my potato cake (now with bacon and cheese!) fix, that’s an extra 60 miles. I think I’ll stick with feeling “entitled” to the products a business supposedly is in business to sell. It’s not like I’m expecting Arby’s to have egg rolls or soup in bowls made of bread; I think it’s reasonable to expect them to have the items listed on their menu. ---
**Author:** ![HenryGale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@HenryGale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HenryGale)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/79 "2012-08-01T17:20:32Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > But bread bowls can’t cost more than a few pennies. I agree that roasting a huge hunk of beef is an investment, but really a dozen extra bread bowls can’t cost more than $2.50, $3.50 tops. Having them on hand is probably worth the good will alone. It doesn’t sound like much when you put it like that. But Wikipedia says that Panera has 1500 locations, so you’re talking over $5000 a day in wasted product, or more than $1.8 million a year. I think you’ll find that Panera runs out of a lot of different bakery items throughout the day.. various breads, cookies, etc. So to fully address the problem, each location could be making $15-20 of extra product daily, which gives them more than $8 million in losses. Let’s say 20% of the excess product actually sells, you’re still losing almost $7 million. (rough figures, I know none of this is perfect) The early bird gets the breadbowl. Definitely not the same thing as Mcdonalds running out of beef. I’d say sandwiches and coffee are panera’s flagship items. ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911/80 "2012-08-02T07:56:03Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > First we weren’t supposed to argue if the fast food restaurant supports hateful policies, now we’re not even supposed to complain if the fast food chain doesn’t sell the food it claims to sell? :dubious: No one is posting about fast food _chains_ . People are whining about specific _locations_ running short on one item or another. The fact is that these stores aren’t magic food-generating machines, and it is nigh-inevitable that an occasional supply issue will arise. The mature response is to shrug your shoulders and either order something else or find somewhere else to eat. > [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > If I drive to the next location for my potato cake (now with bacon and cheese!) fix, that’s an extra 60 miles. I think I’ll stick with feeling “entitled” to the products a business supposedly is in business to sell. It’s not like I’m expecting Arby’s to have egg rolls or soup in bowls made of bread; I think it’s reasonable to expect them to have the items listed on their menu. Consider moving out of the sticks and/or learning to cook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-o-k-for-panera-to-be-out-of-bread-bowls/629911.md?page=5)