# Is it OK to be homophobic ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086 "2002-04-05T22:41:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Razor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5e9695/32.png) [@Razor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razor)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/181 "2002-04-20T01:33:33Z")
So on homosexuals having children. It’s OK to buy bits of other people’s bodies now is it? Or do you just shag a lesbian and hope yo don’t have to do it too often? Male homosexuals are misogynists. Rampant male homosexuality leads to the impoverishment of women because men have got all the bloody money (or most of it). Hidden male homosexuality leads to the spread of noxious diseases into the heterosexual community (i.e they give them to their wives). Lesbians are scared of their own sexuality and just all pretending to be the Virgin Mary and/or are misandrists or make a political ‘choice’ because they don’t want to co-operate with their own oppression at the hands of men. And no, I’m not irrationally scared and I’ve worked with, drunk with and talked with lots of homosexuals and I think they are wrong. That’s not a phobia, it’s a moral judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/182 "2002-04-20T01:59:09Z")
Apparently, you’re not irraltionally scared. Just irrational. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/183 "2002-04-20T01:59:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Razor \* > \*\*So on homosexuals having children. It’s OK to buy bits of other people’s bodies now is it? Or do you just shag a lesbian and hope yo don’t have to do it too often? > > Male homosexuals are misogynists. Rampant male homosexuality leads to the impoverishment of women because men have got all the bloody money (or most of it). Hidden male homosexuality leads to the spread of noxious diseases into the heterosexual community (i.e they give them to their wives). > > Lesbians are scared of their own sexuality and just all pretending to be the Virgin Mary and/or are misandrists or make a political ‘choice’ because they don’t want to co-operate with their own oppression at the hands of men. > > And no, I’m not irrationally scared and I’ve worked with, drunk with and talked with lots of homosexuals and I think they are wrong. That’s not a phobia, it’s a moral judgment. \*\* Goodness. Generalize much, honeybunch? And, just so you recognize it when you hear it many, many times in your (probably short) SDMB career, and because this **is** , after all, Great Debates and not Things I Pulled Out Of My Ass To Bolster A Failing Argument, **cite**? jayjay (who’s already written off and shredded one message board in the last 24 hours because the inhabitants, with few exceptions, were homophobic idiots) ---
**Author:** ![Tarkus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tarkus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarkus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/184 "2002-04-20T04:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > \*\*This assumes that all homosexuals do not want children, or that none are capable of having them. I dont think either is true. \*\* Oh, I’m sure that homosexuals WANT children, but, does by biology fail me? Males need to vertilize an egg and female’s need to have their egg vertifized. As homosexuals, NEVER will the two meet. That’s why I mention 100 years ago to cover enough time before artificial incemination was discoverd. Seriously, to a homosexual male (even if he wants children desparately), having sex with a women is (or I guess should be) as abhorant and as impossible to do as a heterosexual male “forcing” himself to have sex with another man. It just ain’t gonna happen. If it does, you should question your current category of sexualty and maybe admit that you’re not really homosexual. End of humanity. Sounds pretty abnormal to me! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/185 "2002-04-20T11:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarkus \* > **Seriously, to a homosexual male (even if he wants children desparately), having sex with a women is (or I guess should be) as abhorant and as impossible to do as a heterosexual male “forcing” himself to have sex with another man. It just ain’t gonna happen. If it does, you should question your current category of sexualty and maybe admit that you’re not really homosexual.** Sexuality isn’t nearly such a black-and-white issue as you present it to be. There are currently quite a few homosexuals that do just that now, and have in the past as well (IIRC, many had to to protect themselves, as well). Nowadays, there’s also artificial insemination, results in a pregnancy with zero intercourse. If it were 100 years ago, I’m sure somebody would quickly come up with the idea of some guy jerking off, delivering the sperm to a wanting female, and sticking it in her somehow, thus preserving the species (If need be, this can be continued back for the entire length of human existance. Might not be terribly effective, but it would probably work just fine). And, of course, there’s the fact that a species will almost certainly go to further lengths to preserve itself, including people doing things they normally wouldn’t (If the average straight guy were 100% convinced that the human race will die unless he has sex with another guy, I imagine he’d probably do it, even though he didn’t like it). So even if the entire human race were gay (Ignoring the absurdity of the hypothetical, for the moment), it’s pretty unlikely humans would become extinct. Population would probably drop pretty sharply for a while, but would eventually level off, and eventually would probably start growing again. And in the same way, being male is still abnormal. Not only are there more women than men, but to change your hypothetical, if all of humanity were male 100 years ago, then humans would be extinct now. The same argument can be made for all sorts of things. Put like that, it doesn’t seem to be a very convincing argument to me… ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/186 "2002-04-20T11:28:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously, to a homosexual male (even if he wants children desparately), having sex with a women is (or I guess should be) as abhorant and as impossible to do as a heterosexual male “forcing” himself to have sex with another man. It just ain’t gonna happen. And here, exactly, is your fallacy. Once you delete this insanely incorrect perception from your knowlege base, you’ll be able to understand how a homosexual can possibly ever have children. ---
**Author:** ![Tarkus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tarkus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarkus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/187 "2002-04-20T13:36:06Z")
So, I’m wrong in my definition of homosexuality as keeping sexual activity within the same sex? Please, pizza, impress me with your accumen. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/188 "2002-04-20T14:28:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarkus \* > **So, I’m wrong in my definition of homosexuality as keeping sexual activity within the same sex?** Well, it’s more that homosexuals want to keep their sexual activity within the same sex, or more, are only sexually attracted to members of the same sex. But, you can have sex with people you’re not sexually attracted to, especially if you feel like its your responsibility to do so. For a historical example, there’s Edward II of England, who had 4-5 kids, in spite of the fact that he never showed any interest in women at all, and actively hated his wife (It was mutual). It was one of those “You have to have heirs for the good of the nation” sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/189 "2002-04-20T17:25:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Razor \* > **So on homosexuals having children. It’s OK to buy bits of other people’s bodies now is it? Or do you just shag a lesbian and hope yo don’t have to do it too often?** Why would a gay male only procreate with a lesbian? I’m gay, but if I really, really wanted a child, I know of a couple females who would be willing to aid and abett my wish. Just because one is gay doesn’t mean one can’t have healthry relationships with women. > [@](#): > > Male homosexuals are misogynists. That is a lie. Some are, yes. Some heterosexual males are as well. I’m no misogynist, and the idea that I am would come as quite a shock to three or four of my best friends, who are all female. > [@](#): > > Hidden male homosexuality leads to the spread of noxious diseases into the heterosexual community (i.e they give them to their wives). Strange, taht the only people I’ve ever met to have contracted an STD are straight, not gay. Again with the vulgar generalizations. > [@](#): > > Lesbians are scared of their own sexuality and just all pretending to be the Virgin Mary and/or are misandrists or make a political ‘choice’ because they don’t want to co-operate with their own oppression at the hands of men. Huh? Most lesbians I know are neither political radicals nor Catholic nuns, but instead normal, well rounded people. I wonder what the source of your stereotyping bigotry is. Klansman father? Raised in a Baptist “church”? > [@](#): > > And no, I’m not irrationally scared and I’ve worked with, drunk with and talked with lots of homosexuals and I think they are wrong. Oh, well then. God has spoken, huh? I mean, your opinion must be law, right? What a jerk. Do the world a favor, and don’t look both ways when you cross the street. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/190 "2002-04-20T17:31:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarkus \* > \*\*Oh, I’m sure that homosexuals WANT children, but, does by biology fail me? Males need to vertilize an egg and female’s need to have their egg vertifized. As homosexuals, NEVER will the two meet. \*\* Hmmm… strange, then, the number of gays who have had children throughout the ages, and even rather happy “straight” marriages, when attempting to hide who they really are. > [@](#): > > Seriously, to a homosexual male (even if he wants children desparately), having sex with a women is (or I guess should be) as abhorant and as impossible to do as a heterosexual male “forcing” himself to have sex with another man. It just ain’t gonna happen. If it does, you should question your current category of sexualty and maybe admit that you’re not really homosexual. See, this is just absurd. I am gay. I am not attracted to female sexually in any real way. However, I have had sex with females. How? The same way that straight men in prison have sex with other men: lack of options. Prior to coming out, if I wanted to have sex, it would either be with some anonymous stranger whose male, which was never an option, or the not-so-appealing-but-at-least-its-sex female route. Sexual stimultion is, to a degree, at least as physiological as it is emotional. Any gay man who can get it “up” could have sex with a female, just like any straight man could have sex with another male. The physics of it are quite simple. Now whether that sex would be fulfilling or emotionally complete is another question. As a gay male, I could go through the motions with a female, and have on several occassions. But it never felt right, or even all that good. But it can happen, and that doesn’t make me any less gay. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/191 "2002-04-20T17:34:55Z")
I read this with the intention of answering **Razor** but I see **Kirk** and others have already done a thorough job. Quite simply, it would appear that you, **Razor** , have no conception of what a gay man or woman thinks or feels, and some strong stereotypes on how one behaves. Recommendation: _politely_ ask some questions; there are over 20 out gay people of both sexes active on this board. If not confronted by false accusations, they will as politely answer you honestly from their own lives and those of people they know. **Jayjay** , thanks for the heads up. I’ll be back when I get through sweeping up the wreckage from the Bar. \ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/192 "2002-04-20T17:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Jayjay, thanks for the heads up. I’ll be back when I get through sweeping up the wreckage from the Bar. \ \*\* Got it in one! Just as long as you know I consider you one of the exceptions, Poly… jayjay ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/193 "2002-04-20T17:56:38Z")
I do. And I do appreciate it. And I think you’ve been eminently patient. (And we’d better shut up now or **MEB** will accuse us of slamming another MB in violation of public policy here.) ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/194 "2002-04-20T20:44:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarkus \* > \*\*So, I’m wrong in my definition of homosexuality as keeping sexual activity within the same sex? > > Please, pizza, impress me with your accumen. \*\* You were not talking about homosexuality, a concept; you were talking about about homosexuals, people. A homosexual is person who is attracted only to his or her own sex, not necessarily a person who only has sex with members of his or her own sex. A person can be celibate or have an active heterosexual sex life and still be actracted soley to his or her own sex, i.e. homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Tarkus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tarkus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarkus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/195 "2002-04-21T01:51:49Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* * * * See, this is just absurd. I am gay. I am not attracted to female sexually in any real way. However, I have had sex with females. How? The same way that straight men in prison have sex with other men: lack of options. Prior to coming out, if I wanted to have sex, it would either be with some anonymous stranger whose male, which was never an option, or the not-so-appealing-but-at-least-its-sex female route. I have to say that I disagree with this idea and behavior. I mean, where do you draw the line? There’s no one around, Oh here’s a chicken, let’s get crazy!!! We agree to disagree. As a male heterosexual, if I’m in prison, there’s no way I’m having voluntary sex with another male because “there are no options”. I’ve had bouts of “handling” this “by myself” in the past and I would imagine that’s what I’d do in that case. Frankly, _little jimmy_ wouldn’t _rise to the occasion_ for the job. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/196 "2002-04-21T02:28:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I have to say that I disagree with this idea and behavior. I mean, where do you draw the line? There’s no one around, Oh here’s a chicken, let’s get crazy!!! !!! You think that never happens?! ---
**Author:** ![Tarkus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tarkus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarkus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/197 "2002-04-21T02:37:54Z")
Sure, but is THAT considered _normal_ behaviour? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/198 "2002-04-21T03:14:21Z")
Human women are perfectly capable of consenting to sex. Chickens are not. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/199 "2002-04-21T06:23:33Z")
No its not normal behaviour for someone on a ranch, with no other options, to poke a chicken. Just like its not normal behaviour for straight men in prison to have sex with other men, but they do. And its not normal behaviour for me to ahve sex with women, but I have. When normal options are not available, many people will settle for abnormal ones. If a man who has a wife and kids, and is 100% straight, goes to jail, and his sex drive is stronger than his general revulsion at the idea of having sex with another man, and he does so, that doesn’t make him the least bit gay. When he gets out of prison, the chances of him continuing to have sex with men is virtually nil. Likewise, a gay person who has not yet come to terms with their sexuality, but is in a sexually active environment and is drawn to sexual activity, does not become less gay because he has sex with a willing girl. By refusing to be honest about his sexuality, he has truncated out all his “normal” options for sexual consumation, and is left with only abnormal selections, ie girls. After coming to grips with his homosexuality, which was always present, though denied, that person’s likelihood to continue to have sex with girls is virtually nil. To remove the level of abstraction: I’m gay. I’ve known I was gay since I was 13. I was in strong denial of this fact from 13 to 21, and moderate denial from 21 until January (I’m currently 24). However, in my frist run through college, I slept with girls. Why? Not because I was particularly attracted to them. I found a couple guys in my frat far more alluring, if unattainable. But my options were limited because I was not out, I hadn’t even come to terms with who I was, but I still had a 19 year old’s sex drive, so I settled for what is in truth the abnormal option for me. Is there any chance that today, after I’ve come to terms and come out, would have sex with a girl? Not bloody likely. If you don’t understand this, then I don’t see much point in discussing with you. You need to separate acts from orientations: you can be of one orientation and still partake of the opposite actions if your options are limited, say by being in prison or in the closet. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086/200 "2002-04-22T15:43:09Z")
Oh please, having consentual sex with someone of your same gender is called Homosexuality. Period. End of story. Doesn’t matter WHAT the circumstances are. And, as Kirkland said, it is NOT normal behavior. Having sex with an animal or a child means that your are sexually deviant and should be treated as such. So, yes, if it’s abnormal, it’s ok to have a phobia against it and you shouldn’t be made to feel that there is anything wrong with that phobia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-be-homophobic/102086.md?page=11)