# Is it OK to cheat on your expense account (and I mean big time). Her initials are SP. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949 "2008-10-21T21:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/101 "2008-10-22T21:44:08Z")
I gotta agree with **Scylla** here. (I’d let it slide for a beloved Democrat, so I’d better not ruffle my feathers in Palin’s case.) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/102 "2008-10-22T21:54:42Z")
Couldn’t it be argued that part of the job of Governor is PR? If you were a Sarah Palin fan, and most of you aren’t, but if you were, wouldn’t you like to see the kids and Kato Kaelin (I mean Todd)? It is part of the package that she brings as Governor. She is not an Accountant, an IT Pro, or an Engineer. This is not like you all bringing your spouses and kids on your business trips so they can swim in the hotel pool while you meet with clients. And even if it was, I see this shit all of the time in South Florida. In January and February, execs are down here week in and week out, with their families, staying in plush hotels, as part of Workplace Stress Reduction. Funny how they come down here when it is freezing cold up north and nice here. When it is hot as hell here their level of workplace stress seems to be low, or else the don’t come to Florida… ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/103 "2008-10-22T21:57:45Z")
i can understand the clothing allowance for gov. palin. she does have to go to rallys and on tv etc. she may not have the wardrobe for that. her family, that i’m not so sure of. they don’t have to be at every rally and it is school season. as far as traveling… even pro sports doesn’t pay for families to travel, and if anyone could pay it is pro sports. if a player wants his or her family there they pay. in home games they do get free tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/104 "2008-10-22T22:25:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Couldn’t it be argued that part of the job of Governor is PR? When I go visit customers (which is rare, usually it’s the salespeople) I am definitely doing PR and trying to get the customers to buy our software. If I had some little angels in tow I’m sure they would feel more sorry for me and buy our product so that I could send my kids to college. > [@](#): > > And even if it was, I see this shit all of the time in South Florida. In January and February, execs are down here week in and week out, with their families, staying in plush hotels, as part of Workplace Stress Reduction. And I think it is unfair that CEOs get the benefit when Joe the Chicken Plucker does not. Joe the Chicken Plucker is the one who could use the break and the money. ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/105 "2008-10-22T22:38:32Z")
So is Joe the Chicken Plucker the new Joe the Plumber? I hope so. I’m sure tired of that Plumber guy. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/106 "2008-10-22T22:41:39Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Couldn’t it be argued that part of the job of Governor is PR? If you were a Sarah Palin fan, and most of you aren’t, but if you were, wouldn’t you like to see the kids and Kato Kaelin (I mean Todd)? It is part of the package that she brings as Governor. You can argue all you want that part of the job of Gov. is PR, but unless you can find it in the [Alaska State Constitution](http://ltgov.state.ak.us/constitution.php?section=3) you’re just whistling out of your asshole. > [@Alaska State Constitution](#): > > § 16. Governor’s Authority > > The governor shall be responsible for the faithful execution of the laws. He may, by appropriate court action or proceeding brought in the name of the State, enforce compliance with any constitutional or legislative mandate, or restrain violation of any constitutional or legislative power, duty, or right by any officer, department, or agency of the State or any of its political subdivisions. This authority shall not be construed to authorize any action or proceeding against the legislature. > > § 17. Convening Legislature > > Whenever the governor considers it in the public interest, he may convene the legislature, either house, or the two houses in joint session. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/107 "2008-10-22T23:05:59Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > I’m not sure you are right about that. I can’t give cites but I think that when you have family and/or friends go along for the ride on a State owned airplane they are suppose to pay their share of the costs. The plane is for “official business”. There have been a lot of previous examples of this type of thing and they are considered abuses. > > If I save the company money I am not allowed to blow it on perks for personal use. There’s no quid pro quo in these situations. I can’t say it is right- but I have been on law firm jets and I was not ‘officially’ on business- and it didn’t cost anything other than a soda during the flight extra, unless you count the miniscule gas cost of an extra 150 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/108 "2008-10-22T23:15:18Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > The owner of the company? Sure. > > But Palin’s not the big boss in Alaska - the people are. AHA!!! So all of the PEOPLE get to bring their kids on planes for free! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/109 "2008-10-22T23:17:15Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You can argue all you want that part of the job of Gov. is PR, but unless you can find it in the [Alaska State Constitution](http://ltgov.state.ak.us/constitution.php?section=3) you’re just whistling out of your asshole. Where does it say where the mess hall is ? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/110 "2008-10-22T23:19:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You can argue all you want that part of the job of Gov. is PR, but unless you can find it in the [Alaska State Constitution](http://ltgov.state.ak.us/constitution.php?section=3) you’re just whistling out of your asshole. So, under your theory, how can the Governor even claim her own personal travel as a business expense? She doesn’t need to fly anywhere to perform her executive functions. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/111 "2008-10-23T00:49:53Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It should be obvious by now that I’m not understanding your point. Perhaps you are stuttering after all. > > Please point out my error in logic. The set of Palin + Clinton does not equal the larger set of “politicians.” I used a very specific comparison. You have falsely inflated it into a generality and pretended that was my stance when I said no such thing. Falsely equating the specific to mean the general is both dishonest and a logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/112 "2008-10-23T01:04:12Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The set of Palin + Clinton does not equal the larger set of “politicians.” Ah, I see. Would you then disapprove if it were anyone either than one of those two? What is it that sets them apart from the larger class of politicians? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/113 "2008-10-23T01:43:22Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Ah, I see. Would you then disapprove if it were anyone either than one of those two? What is it that sets them apart from the larger class of politicians? They were both relatively obscure state governors from rural states with minor children thrown into the national spotlight as they became candidates in a presidential election. They have a degree of commonality not applicable to the larger set “politicians.” You know that. Again, I don’t appreciate your continued disingenuousness. I don’t appreciate you’re putting words in my mouth. I don’t appreciate you’re wasting my time by necessitating that I correct your dishonest extrapolations and false attributions. If you’re incapable of using the quote button, you could simply ask before you attribute to me positions I haven’t made. I think false attribution is a debate tool commonly used by the most dishonest and least intelligent posters on this board, and I’m surprised to see you lowering your bar this way. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/114 "2008-10-23T01:48:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I doubt it. Personally, I think that executives will always have a lot more lavish perks than workers. After all, the executives get whatever compensation the board of directors feels inclined to vote them, and there’s a certain amount of cronyism that affects those decisions. The workers are limited to whatever concessions labor laws and unions can extract from management, which tend to be a lot less cushy. > > I think that arrangement is basically acceptable, but I don’t extrapolate from it to conclude that whatever an executive wants to do on the company dime is automatically okay, whether or not it’s against the official rules. Just because executives are special, magnificent, important people doesn’t mean that they’re entitled to do absolutely **anything** they want. As one of those privileged to occasionally fly on the corporate jet, I can attest to the fact that it’s easily one of the top and most coveted executive perks. So here’s a woman who gets rid of the government jet for travel, saving hundreds of thousands. She expenses $21,000 or so to keep her kids with her when she travels. And her political opponents turn it into a field day. Castigating the woman for this is at the least mean-spirited sniping that exposes the political bias of the harper. At worst it’s the sort of idiotic argumentation that uses the letter of the law (and possibly not even that) to distort the general behaviour of the person being skewered. Not only is it embarassingly petty; it’s destructive. It is precisely the sort of politically-motivated nitpicking that helps keep women in their place. If ever there were an issue that focuses the dilemma of female execs, this is one. And to the general issue of our political system, it is precisely this sort of self-righteous carping from opponents that turns our political leaders on both sides into cynical bastards (if they weren’t that to begin with). There’s no bigger picture being looked at here. There’s no effort at all to ascertain whether the overall public trust is being protected. No sirree. Got rid of the jet? So what? This woman spent our money ferrying her damn children around! The horror…the horror… Proponents for Mr Obama do not elevate their cause being shrill about bullshit. They don’t separate themselves from the rabid right by wallowing in self-righteous indignation over something this petty. And when Mr Obama ascends to the Presidency he will not be well-served by this type of culture, because it promotes only division and hypocrisy. The woman did what few in power have ever done: deprive herself of the corporate jet, saving her taxpayers real money at a real loss to her personal comfort. That does, indeed, play into the equation, and it does say something about her leadership in the area of controlling travel expenses. Those who pretend some purist philosophy gets to separate those two actions are indistinguishable from small-time booger-flickers casting snot because they know they don’t like an opposing debater but they are too mentally challenged to focus on substantive issues. There are fish to fry in this election. This one is not even a minnow. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/115 "2008-10-23T01:51:53Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Couldn’t it be argued that part of the job of Governor is PR? If you were a Sarah Palin fan, and most of you aren’t, but if you were, wouldn’t you like to see the kids and Kato Kaelin (I mean Todd)? It is part of the package that she brings as Governor. > > She is not an Accountant, an IT Pro, or an Engineer. This is not like you all bringing your spouses and kids on your business trips so they can swim in the hotel pool while you meet with clients. > > And even if it was, I see this shit all of the time in South Florida. In January and February, execs are down here week in and week out, with their families, staying in plush hotels, as part of Workplace Stress Reduction. > > Funny how they come down here when it is freezing cold up north and nice here. When it is hot as hell here their level of workplace stress seems to be low, or else the don’t come to Florida.. And your point is? Yes, of course you see a lot of execs down in South Florida with their families in the “winter” months. How do you know that the the family is down there on the company dime? In probably 90% of the cases (except for the thieving scumbags, like SP) the exec is on the company dime and the cost of the family is being paid by the family. Those are typically the rules and are not considered unethical. To expense the family to the company is almost always considered highly unethical and not condoned or tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/116 "2008-10-23T01:52:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > They were both relatively obscure state governors from rural states with minor children thrown into the national spotlight as they became candidates in a presidential election. > > They have a degree of commonality not applicable to the larger set “politicians.” You know that. > > Again, I don’t appreciate your continued disingenuousness. I don’t appreciate you’re putting words in my mouth. I don’t appreciate you’re wasting my time by necessitating that I correct your dishonest extrapolations and false attributions. > > If you’re incapable of using the quote button, you could simply ask before you attribute to me positions I haven’t made. > > I think false attribution is a debate tool commonly used by the most dishonest and least intelligent posters on this board, and I’m surprised to see you lowering your bar this way. Quite honestly, I don’t think my deduction was a stretch at all. You can get all pissy if you like, but I think that’s simply because you don’t seem to have thought through the implications of your comment. I don’t think that I’m the one being disingenous here. Now that I’ve got some clarification, it seems to me that your stance is that it’s OK if a relatively obscure state governor from a rural state with minor children thrown into the national spotlight as they became a candidate in a presidential election has done it. Is that closer? If that is closer - what makes it OK for those politicians and not for any other politician? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/117 "2008-10-23T02:20:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t appreciate you’re putting words in my mouth. On further relection, why don’t you put your words right out here instead of pussyfooting around? Here, I’ll offer three templates, any one of which you can use as a springboard. 1. It is OK for any politician to do it. 2. It is OK for some politicians to do it. 3. It is not OK for any politician to do it. After you’ve addressed this, perhaps we can continue the discussion in a reasonable facsimile of sensible. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/118 "2008-10-23T02:29:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So, under your theory, how can the Governor even claim her own personal travel as a business expense? She doesn’t need to fly anywhere to perform her executive functions. No governor (nor any employee of any company) should be claiming **personal** travel as a **business** expense. Only expenses made on business trips should be claimed as a business expense. How is that not obvious? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/119 "2008-10-23T03:02:07Z")
Since when did one right and one wrong make a right? Palin opposed the jet as sucking on the government tit even though it was used to transport prisoners. She campaigned on this issue, won the election and sold the jet, at a loss, to much acclaim. Then because she had no jet to fly her kiddies around she charged the government for the commercial travel of her kids. I’m sorry, but this is wrong. Her kids are not government employees. As a mom I feel for her and understand why she wants to take her kids with her on business trips. I felt the same way and took my kids with me but paid for it MYSELF. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949/120 "2008-10-23T03:22:33Z")
Sheesh, I just wasted 2 hours going through the annual big international company answerable to stock holders standards of business conduct training (I passed). Two Basic rules of thumb (at least at my MNC): [ol] [li]ask permission first (not forgiveness or fraud later). [/li][li]Be upfront, transparent and remove yourself from the process when there is even a whisper of a potential conflict of interest. [/li][/ol] I am assuming that the State of Alaska has a code of conduct for elected officials. I would be greatly surprised if the above 2 points are not included in some fashon or another and applicable to the Governor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-cheat-on-your-expense-account-and-i-mean-big-time-her-initials-are-sp/468949.md?page=7)