# Is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593 "2010-07-13T21:21:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/1 "2010-07-13T21:21:13Z")
I’ve realized that if someone tells me that they consider FOX to be a politically ‘balanced’ media outlet, or think of it as objective news, I will dismiss them. Meaning I will basically consider their opinions so wildly biased that I will give little or no credence to whatever they say on certain issues. Is that OK or is it bigoted? ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/2 "2010-07-13T21:32:12Z")
OK vs. Bigoted, I don’t know. But my reaction is the same as yours when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/3 "2010-07-13T21:45:17Z")
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, I guess. Bias is purely subjective and in the eyes of the beholder, so don’t be surprised if that same person dismissing you for much the same reason that you dismiss them. Personally, I think it’s better to judge based on the content of their position instead of where they get their news, but that’s just me. YMMV… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/4 "2010-07-13T21:52:37Z")
Judging somebody for saying they think Fox News is balanced IS judging them on the content of their opinion. I don’t necessarily dismiss somethinmg just because somebody says they saw it on Fox, but if they tell me they think Fox is fair and balanced, or an objective source, then they’re telling me something about _themselves_. “Fox News is fair and balanced” is not an intellectually defensible opinion. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/5 "2010-07-13T21:55:21Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Judging somebody for saying they think Fox News is balanced IS judging them on the content of their opinion. [/QUOTE] No, you are prejudging them on what you THINK their opinion would be (on a range of given subjects) based strictly on where they get their news. > [@](#): > > “Fox News is fair and balanced” is not an intellectually defensible opinion. Depends on one’s world view and political outlook I’d say. Personally, I would agree with you…but then I have similar (though not the same) prejudices you do on this topic. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/6 "2010-07-13T21:58:59Z")
It’s not an opinion that Fox news is unbalanced. It is a demonstrable fact. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/7 "2010-07-13T22:04:15Z")
It’s bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/8 "2010-07-13T22:16:13Z")
It’s nothing of the kind. If somebody tels me they like Rush Limbaugh, I don’t care. If someone tells me Rush Limbaugh is a completely honest and accurate source of information, then I know they’re an idiot. And since when did it become “bigotry” to judge somebody’s opinions? Is Limbaugh a bigot when he bashes liberals? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/9 "2010-07-13T22:16:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s not an opinion that Fox news is unbalanced. It is a demonstrable fact. [/QUOTE] How would you demonstrate it? From what perspective? From a left wing perspective? Centrists? Right wing? Some immutable fantasy yardstick? If one is on the right wing, then Fox IS ‘balanced’, since it caters to that political world view. As a thought experiment: My dad watches Fox News pretty much continuously. What’s his opinion on abortion? How about concerning the deficit? Medicare? The war in Iraq? Prayer in school? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/10 "2010-07-13T22:20:54Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > How would you demonstrate it? From what perspective? From a scientific perspective. It’s no trick to measure the amount of time given to overtly conservative views as compared to that of liberal views. > [@](#): > > As a thought experiment: My dad watches Fox News pretty much continuously. What’s his opinion on abortion? How about concerning the deficit? Medicare? The war in Iraq? Prayer in school? I didn’t say you could tell anything about somebody by whether they watched Fox News, I said you can tell something about them by whether they think it’s a _balanced presentation_ of the news. It is not. Anyone with any intelligence knows that it is not. Anyone who actually believes the “fair and balanced” mantra lacks critical thinking skills. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/11 "2010-07-13T22:22:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It’s bigotry. Doesn’t this follow the same line of reasoning as, “is it okay to dismiss someone in the KKK?” Their either racist assholes, or ignorant buffoons, neither group worthy of respect. I think the moral of the story here is to the better person, since there isn’t any reason to dismiss someone based on a single criteria. As a side example: last year my wife and I “won a free dinner” to a wellness seminar. Long story short it turned out to be a sales pitch by a chiropractor. The guy turned out to be really knowledgeable and charismatic, making a really convincing case for the benefits of chiropractic treatment. Right up until the point he mentioned he didn’t vaccinate his children. We politely excused ourselves shortly after hearing that. Was I bigoted, hell ya. Would I trust my money and health to a guy that doesn’t understand vaccinations, hell no. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/12 "2010-07-13T22:23:14Z")
I can tell quite a bit about someone’s political views if she says that Fox gives the most balanced presentation of the news. But it doesn’t tell me if that person is a kind, interesting or decent human being. It just tells me that that person is a conservative who is somewhat gullible. If someone said the same thing about ABC news, I would not be able to make any judgments about their political views. They could be just as conservative and gullibe or liberal and gullible. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/13 "2010-07-13T22:30:44Z")
Just for clarity, are we talking about the “news” part of Fox News, or the station as a whole? The Fox News Network is a series of right leaning political commentators. But they do have little 5min segments of reporting every hour or so. That stuff is moderately balanced in that, “Police are a chasing a fugitive.” > [@xtisme](#): > > As a thought experiment: My dad watches Fox News pretty much continuously. What’s his opinion on abortion? How about concerning the deficit? Medicare? The war in Iraq? Prayer in school? Someone that is pro-choice, in favour of big government, supports Obama, and wants UHC would have a very difficult time sitting through Hannity, Greta Van Susteren, and O’Reilly. That’s 3 solid hours where someone talks about how Obama wants to raise taxes, kill babies, and ruin medicare. If you believe that it sounds like sweet music. If you don’t, it’s like nails on a chalk board. It might help if we defined what we mean by Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/14 "2010-07-13T22:30:45Z")
[Fox News admits bias!](http://www.slate.com/id/2119864) Insiders on Fox admit it. It so obvious that it does not require a confession. But every now and then they do it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/15 "2010-07-13T22:32:14Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Bias is purely subjective and in the eyes of the beholder, No, it is not. If you are resorting to such infantile tactics as pretending that any Republican that does something wrong is actually a member of the Democratic Party, or photoshopping images of your opponents to make them look ugly and inhuman, you _are_, objectively speaking, biased. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/16 "2010-07-13T22:33:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] From a scientific perspective. It’s no trick to measure the amount of time given to overtly conservative views as compared to that of liberal views. [/QUOTE] How would you quantify what’s a ‘liberal view’ vs a ‘conservative view’, and how are you drawing the center line? Based on what yardstick? I’m not seeing as how a ‘scientific perspective’ is going to be able to determine this, since it’s subjective, not objective, but if you’d like to lay out at least how it would work I’d appreciate it. Mind, I think that Fox IS biased…but then, I’m basing that on my own political perspective and prejudice and bias against it. If there was actually a news organization that catered to my own political views then I’d see that as the yard stick, so anything they presented that would be left or right of that view point I’d see as ‘balanced’ and ‘fair’. You probably view the news you listen too in much the same way, and probably think of your view as the center point. > [@](#): > > Anyone with any intelligence knows that it is not. Anyone who actually believes the “fair and balanced” mantra lacks critical thinking skills. Would you think that anyone with ‘intelligence’ could believe in a divine being? Or that they lack critical thinking skills? You are making assumptions based on your own bias and projecting those biases onto those who don’t see the world in the same way you do. Personally, I think that everyone has blind spots and biases…which means that one some subjects a person can be rational, on others completely bonkers. It’s why I can have a calm, rational discussion with you on some subjects, but not so much on others. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/17 "2010-07-13T22:35:36Z")
Well, some evidence was shown to demonstrate how Fox news is unbalanced,so how about by using science? 🙂 To get some background, I bring this post from the great former member of the SDMB Phil Plait, aka “The Bad Astronomer” (Darn, I really miss him!) [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/07/01/climategates-death-rattle/](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/07/01/climategates-death-rattle/) > [@](#): > > Hear that choking sound? That’s the dying gasps of Climategate. The Pennsylvania State University’s investigation into allegations of misconduct by climate scientist Michael Mann found him innocent, specifically saying: > > ``` > … the Investigatory Committee determined that Dr. Michael E. Mann did not engage in, nor did he participate in, directly or indirectly, any actions that seriously deviated from accepted practices within the academic community for proposing, conducting, or reporting research, or other scholarly activities. > > ``` > > Mann, as you may recall, was a key figure in the so-called Climategate fiasco, where leaked emails were purported to show scientists fixing data to make global warming evidence appear stronger. Since Day 1 of this I have been calling it a non-event, a manufactured controversy by global warming denialists trying to make enough noise to drown out any real talk on this topic. And time and time again I have been shown to be correct. And I did point before that FOX was (and is) one of the most misleading sources of information regarding this “scandal” [http://mediamatters.org/columns/201007090048](http://mediamatters.org/columns/201007090048) > [@](#): > > The crew at Fox & Friends spent this year’s Earth Day promoting an important cause. No, not encouraging environmental consciousness – they devoted the show to pushing “Climategate” falsehoods in order to falsely claim that “scientists held back data that discredits theories on global warming.” They were joined by Brent Bozell of the Media Research Center, who was there to complain about non-Fox networks “dismiss[ing]” and “ignor[ing]” the story. > > Last December, Bozell told Lou Dobbs that “Climategate” is the “biggest scandal in terms of science, finance, and politics … in the history of man.” After Bozell compared the climate science “cover-up” to “the craziness” of Dan Brown’s fiction, he actually managed to draw laughter from Dobbs. Unfortunately, contrary to Bozell’s suggestion that media outlets ignored the story, numerous non-Fox “Climategate” stories adopted conservatives’ dishonest framing of the non-story. > > And now for the inevitable conclusion of this manufactured controversy. > > As reported by The New York Times’ Andrew Revkin – who, by the way, Rush Limbaugh thinks should “just go kill” himself – the Independent Climate Change Email Review “cleared climate scientists and administrators” involved in “Climategate” of “malfeasance.” This follows several other exonerations of the scientists involved in the phony scandal. **In response, Media Matters, joined by numerous progressive and clean energy groups, called on all outlets that reported on the original “Climategate” controversy to set the record straight.** > > So this leaves us where we were before the “Climategate” freakout: There is still overwhelming scientific evidence supporting the theory of global warming. > > And once again conservative media proved that they don’t hesitate to rely on blatant distortions, outright falsehoods, and a complete disregard for reality to advance their political causes. Of course, we will see soon as many reports discussing the exoneration of the scientists at FOX just like the ones they made pumping up the “scandal”… Sorry, I can not even hold my breath for even a nanosecond expecting that FOX will do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/18 "2010-07-13T22:36:34Z")
Also, as a liberal comparison, think back to the movie \*Sicko \*by Michael Moore. It’s no secret that I am a proponent of UHC, and I watched that movie expecting to hear things I agreed with. But the guy sucks. His arguments suck. He did a disservice to liberals. I know a lot of ill-informed and gullible people that watched that with a big grin nodding the whole time–sucking down the kool-aid, then regurgitating for the little gullible baby birds around them. No self-respecting liberal would think Michael Moore presents a fair and balanced look at topics. So we can say that it’s okay to dismiss someone that thinks Michael Moore is a journalist. It’s fine to enjoy his movies, but don’t consider them factual. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/19 "2010-07-13T22:40:27Z")
My own view is look for who is saying the path of Love and connecting between God’s children. Sometimes that view is expressed on ‘conventional’ media, sometimes on ‘alternative’ media, sometimes neither sometimes both. I have found that there are no hard and fast rules, nothing that can be written down as guidelines when it comes to where the path of Love is. If you are dismissive of someone for using alternative media that is just as bad as a person who accepts it, neither is right, though they may be right on some issues. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/20 "2010-07-13T22:45:12Z")
[QUOTE=emacknight] No self-respecting liberal would think Michael Moore presents a fair and balanced look at topics. So we can say that it’s okay to dismiss someone that thinks Michael Moore is a journalist. [/QUOTE] Well, I agree with you, as I agree with DtC that Fox is biased. The thing is, if someone watches MM and sits there nodding, does that really tell you anything about what they think on OTHER subjects? Can you simply dismiss anyone who watches MM movies and agrees with them? Can you know what their positions will be on other subjects and simply know that they won’t have any valid points or bring anything interesting to the discussion? As with the Fox News watcher, I think you’d need to judge for yourself, and that said judgment might change depending on the topic under discussion. Maybe some MM Sicko fan doesn’t know shit about health care, but knows quite a bit about economics, or partial physics, or who the best porn stars are. Will you simply dismiss them because they like MM? -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=2)