# Is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593 "2010-07-13T21:21:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/261 "2010-07-15T19:51:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Only if you ignore the previous poll posted by you.. > > The ones you are mentioning now are not dealing with the bias in the mainstream media but the bias among the reporters. > > I 'll wait for your self denials. šŸ™‚ No self denial, just a request for clarity. How does a poll showing that most Americans donā€™t trust the media conflict with a poll showing that they tilt left? By the way, youā€™re wrong, it doesnā€™t just deal with reporters (although thatā€™s a fair proxy for the media in general). Check out [this](http://www.mrc.org/biasbasics/biasbasics4.asp) > [@](#): > > Since 2001, Gallup has polled American adults on the question: Now thinking for a moment about the news media: In general, do you think the news media is [sic] too liberal, just about right, or too conservative. For six consecutive years, the number of Americans saying the media are too liberal has outnumbered those seeing a pro-conservative bias by about a three-to-one margin. Gallup also found that while a large majority of Democrats said they had trust and confidence in the media, a similarly large percentage of Republicans expressed little or no trust in the media. > > KEY FINDINGS: > > In September 2006, more than twice as many Americans said that the media are too liberal (44%) than said the media are too conservative (19%). > > Since 2001, the percentage saying the media are too liberal has ranged from 44 percent to 48 percent; the percentage seeing the media as too conservative has never exceeded 19 percent. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/262 "2010-07-15T19:52:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Actual quantifiable data regarding demonstrable political advocacy. Fine. Please provide the cite. Otherwise, we get to use my numbers šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/263 "2010-07-15T19:56:24Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > PS In a poll about whether the media is liberal or conservative, without any bright lines of demarkation, what yardstick did you intend to use other than the perception of a cross-section of Americans? In the latest polls posted they are asking the people about their perception about the reporters and what the reporters picture themselves as, **it is not very useful to use that as a way to see if an outfit is liberal or not.** Looking at History I have seen many examples of past captains of the media that were liberal to the core but they knew that if they had told the truth about war, food quality and union issues they would had lose sponsors and the newspaper. Even if liberals are working in the MSM, they do know that an eternal compromise of catering also to the right wing is important for their livelihoods. On edit: those key findings still show it with less than 50% agreeing. And the previous poll is more up to date. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/264 "2010-07-15T19:57:23Z")
Anyone who demands a cite that Fox News is biased is dismissing himself _ipso facto_ as anyone worth providing a cite for. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/265 "2010-07-15T20:00:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Actual quantifiable data regarding demonstrable political advocacy. Hey, I found one, from before the election though [http://www.journalism.org/analysis\_report/winning\_media\_campaign](http://www.journalism.org/analysis_report/winning_media_campaign) > [@](#): > > coverage of McCain has been heavily unfavorableā€”and has become more so over time. In the six weeks following the conventions through the final debate, unfavorable stories about McCain outweighed favorable ones by a factor of more than three to oneā€”the most unfavorable of all four candidatesā€”according to the study by the Pew Research Centerā€™s Project for Excellence in Journalism. > > For Obama during this period, just over a third of the stories were clearly positive in tone (36%), while a similar number (35%) were neutral or mixed. A smaller number (29%) were negative. > > For McCain, by comparison, nearly six in ten of the stories studied were decidedly negative in nature (57%), while fewer than two in ten (14%) were positive. Now, the critical-thinking person will suggest that, hey, all things arenā€™t equal. During this timeframe the financial markets were in meltdown, and McCain, from the incumbent party, was tarred with those results. Stillā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/266 "2010-07-15T20:04:38Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > The ā€œmainstream mediaā€ (defined by me as the networks, cable and over-the-air, major city newspapers, Time and Newsweek) is right wing? > > Youā€™re kidding, right? When someone lives in Hawaii, even California is far to the east. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/267 "2010-07-15T20:05:15Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Now, the critical-thinking person will suggest that, hey, all things arenā€™t equal. During this timeframe the financial markets were in meltdown, and McCain, from the incumbent party, was tarred with those results. > > Stillā€¦ What I remember is that McCain tarred himself for his acts and reactions to the meltdown. Even some conservatives, but mostly independents, noticed that and the mainstream media just had to catch up to the where the eyeballs were going. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/268 "2010-07-15T20:07:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > In the latest polls posted they are asking the people about their perception about the reporters and what the reporters picture themselves as, **it is not very useful to use that as a way to see if an outfit is liberal or not.** Looking at History I have seen many examples of past captains of the media that were liberal to the core but they knew that if they had told the truth about war, food quality and union issues they would had lose sponsors and the newspaper. > > Even if liberals are working in the MSM, they do know that an eternal compromise of catering also to the right wing is important for their livelihoods. > > On edit: those key findings still show it with less than 50% agreeing. And the previous poll is more up to date. So you choose to dismiss the Gallup Poll cited in post 261, because itā€™s merely a plurality? Why donā€™t you show me some evidence that the media tilts conservative. Iā€™ve posted poll after poll, and just now an analysis by Pew showing that it tilts liberal. All you and **Lobo** seem to have left in the tank is to try to nitpick those results. Maybe I just donā€™t understand your argument. It seems to be, a) Fox tilts conservative, b) the rest of the media is either conservative (if you believe **Dio** ) or up the middle, and c) why arenā€™t you agreeing with me dammit this is a liberal board. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/269 "2010-07-15T20:08:34Z")
But I see that you are continuing to avoid this, **Mr Smashy** : ā€œcare to deal with the ā€œClimategateā€ lies that FOX made and continues to do when they are not making retractions?ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/270 "2010-07-15T20:08:43Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > When someone lives in Hawaii, even California is far to the east. šŸ˜‰ Yup, Iā€™m afraid thatā€™s what we have here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/271 "2010-07-15T20:10:51Z")
ā€œFavorableā€ or ā€œunfavorableā€ stories do not necessarily correlate to bias, but can largely be dictated by events themselves. If one candidate says or does dumber things than another, than objective news reporting will reflect that. That study also does not reflect commentary shows, but only the hard news segmemts. Therefore, things like Sean Hannity going on day after day about the black boogeyman, Reverend Wright does not get counted against Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/272 "2010-07-15T20:14:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > But I see that you are avoiding this Mr Smashy: > > ā€œcare to deal with the ā€œClimategateā€ lies that FOX made and continues to do when they are not making retractions?ā€ Youā€™ll notice I never brought up Climategate, someone else did (possibly you, Iā€™m too lazy to go back in the pages to figure it out). I didnā€™t follow the story closely when it came out, and I have little incentive to spend the time to dive deep, since I donā€™t care much about GW (my take: thereā€™s very very little we can do about it, either a) because itā€™s caused by factors beyond manā€™s control, b) if itā€™s caused by us we donā€™t have the political will to make any changes that could possibly move the needle, and c) all of the scare stories I read about never talk to any of the upsideā€¦ a 3rd harvest in Minnesota, more water in some places that need it, fending off the cyclical freeze weā€™re due for, etc, so itā€™s tough to do any kind of reasonable analysis.) Maybe you can post the lies (again, if youā€™ve done that already). But to what point? Trying to convince me that Fox tilts right because their audience does? Save your breath/keystrokes. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/273 "2010-07-15T20:16:42Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > So you choose to dismiss the Gallup Poll cited in post 261, because itā€™s merely a plurality? Iā€™m not dismissing it, only that the latest poll should take precedent. > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Why donā€™t you show me some evidence that the media tilts conservative. Iā€™ve posted poll after poll, and just now an analysis by Pew showing that it tilts liberal. All you and **Lobo** seem to have left in the tank is to try to nitpick those results. Nope, you are only showing the opinions of reporters and what people think about the reporting, when asked about the overall picture the support (from both the left and the right) disappears. (And one does not have to ignore that the place you are using for cites is very partisan.) > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Maybe I just donā€™t understand your argument. It seems to be, a) Fox tilts conservative, b) the rest of the media is either conservative (if you believe **Dio** ) or up the middle, and c) why arenā€™t you agreeing with me dammit this is a liberal board. A) Yes. B) The rest of the media is for the corporations and centrist. C) :sigh: I do agree with some of your points, but you are continuing to exclude the middle. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/274 "2010-07-15T20:22:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Youā€™ll notice I never brought up Climategate, someone else did (possibly you, Iā€™m too lazy to go back in the pages to figure it out). I didnā€™t follow the story closely when it came out, and I have little incentive to spend the time to dive deep, since I donā€™t care much about GW (my take: thereā€™s very very little we can do about it, either a) because itā€™s caused by factors beyond manā€™s control, b) if itā€™s caused by us we donā€™t have the political will to make any changes that could possibly move the needle, and c) all of the scare stories I read about never talk to any of the upsideā€¦ a 3rd harvest in Minnesota, more water in some places that need it, fending off the cyclical freeze weā€™re due for, etc, so itā€™s tough to do any kind of reasonable analysis.) :rolleyes: Iā€™m not talking about the GW or if you are against it, this was a case where FOX news said that the climate scientists were hiding the data or committing fraud. **This was not true at all.** > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Maybe you can post the lies (again, if youā€™ve done that already). But to what point? Trying to convince me that Fox tilts right because their audience does? Save your breath/keystrokes. The point remains, people that continues to ignore that FOX news is lying on top of tilting right is a reason why they should be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/275 "2010-07-15T20:30:21Z")
I think that the saddest part of all this is that, when confronted by claims that Fox is extremely slanted and lies to support itā€™s views, the claim of ā€œWell, the other side does it tooooo!!ā€ is made with some sort of perverse pride. Whether or not someone _else_ is doing something wrong shouldnā€™t matter one whitā€¦unless you truly believe that the ends justify the means, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/276 "2010-07-15T20:32:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The point remains, people that continues to ignore that FOX news is lying on top of tilting right is a reason why they should be dismissed. Maybe they did, I have no idea. But are you then saying that the other MSM organizations donā€™t do this? From where I sit, is it any worse than when Newsweek buries the Clinton affair, or CBS continues to back Mapes and Rather long after the memo would be realized as false? No. They all have agendas. Fox, Drudge, WaTimes tilt right, and a whole lot more tilt left. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/277 "2010-07-15T20:33:14Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Maybe they did, I have no idea. But are you then saying that the other MSM organizations donā€™t do this? > > From where I sit, is it any worse than when Newsweek buries the Clinton affair, or CBS continues to back Mapes and Rather long after the memo would be realized as false? No. > > They all have agendas. Fox, Drudge, WaTimes tilt right, and a whole lot more tilt left. See the previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/278 "2010-07-15T20:37:27Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Maybe they did, I have no idea. But are you then saying that the other MSM organizations donā€™t do this? Thatā€™s correct. They donā€™t. > [@](#): > > From where I sit, is it any worse than when Newsweek buries the Clinton affair, or CBS continues to back Mapes and Rather long after the memo would be realized as false? No. The Clinton affair was not news, nor did any of the ā€œMSMā€ fabricate details about it. The Rather memo was a mistake, not an intentional fraud, and it was inconsequential to the validity of the story itself, which was completely accurate. > [@](#): > > They all have agendas. Fox, Drudge, WaTimes tilt right, and a whole lot more tilt left. They donā€™t all lie and fabricate. Thatā€™s a Fox News specialty (well, Drudge has been known to do it to, I guess). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/279 "2010-07-15T20:39:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that the saddest part of all this is that, when confronted by claims that Fox is extremely slanted and lies to support itā€™s views, the claim of ā€œWell, the other side does it tooooo!!ā€ is made with some sort of perverse pride. Whether or not someone _else_ is doing something wrong shouldnā€™t matter one whitā€¦unless you truly believe that the ends justify the means, no matter what. If you are referring to me, then please know I take no perverse pride in any of this. I think itā€™s sad that some people buy into everything that Fox says, sad that some buy into what the rest of the MSM says. Even worse though is some people who absolutely refuse to admit whatā€™s painfully obvious, as per the polls, research, etc that Iā€™ve cited. But by far the worst part is the closed-minded nature of the conversation weā€™ve been having here on the SDMB. Iā€™d hoped for a more diversity of ideas and agendas. Iā€™m guessing that the increase in ā€˜niche-nessā€™ over the years gets birds of a feather yelling in their own communities, and that has gone a long way to add to the divisiveness of the country, the red/blue divide PS Fox would probably tell you that the ends do in fact justify the means. I believe that Hannity and Rush, for example, sometimes take positions way right of what they really think, because they know they are among the few counterbalances out there against the rest of the literati/talking head class, who will predictably go left. Kind of like asking more for your house than you know itā€™s worth, because you know youā€™ll get lowballed and want to meet in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/280 "2010-07-15T20:41:34Z")
If it is o.k. for the Right to lie because the Left lies, then are you saying that it is o.k. for the Left to lie? When your moral compass spins that fast, do you get dizzy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=15)