# Is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593 "2010-07-13T21:21:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/321 "2010-07-16T02:04:54Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > By what standard? Impact on the country. Right. Spreading fallshoods and and purposely highlighting and repeating false conclusions about limited data in order to influence a presidential election. > [@](#): > > You’ll have to send me the links about Fox trying to throw the election wrt Obama lies (about his record?). > > Remember I’m not talking about some retard like Keith Olbermann or Bill Maher (or Glenn Beck or Michael Savage, for that matter). They are entertainers, and most people get that. > > Rather was on 60 minutes, he was both the primary anchor of CBS Evening News and the managing editor. So if you’re suggesting there’s an equality here, I’d want to see some links from the equivalent; a Chris Wallace, Tony Snow, etc. Do you honestly think that matters to the majority of the voting public. Do you think the majority of the voting public gives a news anchor a lot more weight than a commentator. I know some do, but if the problem was impact on the nation by changing a presidential election by presenting false information then you have to be realistic about how an election is swayed. Rather than spend time on the many serious issues we face Fox relentlessly pursued the minor issue of a few slected comments by Reverand Wright and made it into a huge, “be scared of the black man” issue morning noon and night [Here’s Chris Wallace’s contribution](http://crooksandliars.com/2008/03/16/fox-news-sunday-wallace-obsesses-over-reverend-wright) [Here’s Snow](http://mediamatters.org/research/200804030001) not as Fox anchor but it’s an example of his abilty to be a partisan hack. Then there was the William Ayers loose connection to Obama and the same tactic. HAmmer it morning noon and night to scare voters with fabricated bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/322 "2010-07-16T02:08:52Z")
I see that things have moved on, and that nobody has actually bother to tackle my main which is that confirmation bias and selective perception are the actual root cause inform one’s opinions in this, and not any particular quality of Fox News. If someone was actually **interested** in debating they might cite or create a study that performed a random sampling of items from fox news against other sources to attempt to discern a qualitative difference. We’ve seen such in another, and of course it failed to demonstrate anything particularly egregious that was unique to Fox. Therefore, until someone produces conclusive evidence to the contrary I maintain that people who selectively disparage fox news or those who trust as as being simple partisan hacks behaving predictably according to known and measurable tendencies to bias through their own heuristics. Prisoners of their own ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/323 "2010-07-16T02:21:07Z")
If we are actually looking for data, Wikipedia cites several studies. I’m not a big fan of polls. Some like public policy polling show fox news as being percieved as most accurate, but we know that perceptions aren’t necessary accurate. A study by Rasmussen found Fox News to be the second most biased (next to CBS.) Interestingly: " A study published in November 2005 by Tim Groseclose, a professor of political science at UCLA, comparing political bias from such news outlets as the New York Times, USA Today, the Drudge Report, the Los Angeles Times, and Fox News’ Special Report, concluded “all of the news outlets we examine, except Fox News’ Special Report and the Washington Times, received scores to the left of the average member of Congress.” this goes to support an earlier argument I made that there is a liberal bias to most other news sources, thus enhancing the value of fox as a dissenting and balancing view. In short, the sampling of studies cited in wikipedia seems to strongly support my notion that Fox is not especially mendacious as compared to other news sources, and the real issue with its detractors is simple confirmation bias. They don’t like Fox because it leans right and they lean to the left. They are simply incapable of overcoming their prejudices and thus reality remains hidden to them. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/324 "2010-07-16T02:34:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If we are actually looking for data, Wikipedia cites several studies. > > I’m not a big fan of polls. Some like public policy polling show fox news as being percieved as most accurate, but we know that perceptions aren’t necessary accurate. > > A study by Rasmussen found Fox News to be the second most biased (next to CBS.) CBS what? Nightly news or prime time entertainment? > [@Scylla](#): > > Interestingly: > > " A study published in November 2005 by Tim Groseclose, a professor of political science at UCLA, comparing political bias from such news outlets as the New York Times, USA Today, the Drudge Report, the Los Angeles Times, and **Fox News’ Special Report** , concluded “all of the news outlets we examine, except Fox News’ Special Report and the Washington Times, received scores to the left of the average member of Congress.” Note that they were looking at one segment of the Fox news organization. > [@Scylla](#): > > this goes to support an earlier argument I made that there is a liberal bias to most other news sources, thus enhancing the value of fox as a dissenting and balancing view. Dissenting and balancing are not the same thing. “He lied and said it was 70 degrees outside, it was really 80 so I lied and said it was 90.” > [@Scylla](#): > > In short, the sampling of studies cited in wikipedia seems to strongly support my notion that Fox is not especially mendacious as compared to other news sources, and the real issue with its detractors is simple confirmation bias. > > They don’t like Fox because it leans right and they lean to the left. They are simply incapable of overcoming their prejudices and thus reality remains hidden to them. That is not why they don’t like FNC. That is the victimization that FNC likes to push. When they do something wrong the cling to the idea that they are a dissenting voice. Lying is not providing a dissenting voice. Does that make sense to anyone other than me? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/325 "2010-07-16T02:47:20Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > We’ve seen such in another, and of course it failed to demonstrate anything particularly egregious that was unique to Fox. As mentioned already the current position regarding “climategate” and the global warming issue should be enough to demonstrate something particularly egregious of FOX, so give it up. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/326 "2010-07-16T02:57:09Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I see that things have moved on, and that nobody has actually bother to tackle my main which is that confirmation bias and selective perception are the actual root cause inform one’s opinions in this, and not any particular quality of Fox News. > > If someone was actually **interested** in debating they might cite or create a study that performed a random sampling of items from fox news against other sources to attempt to discern a qualitative difference. > > We’ve seen such in another, and of course it failed to demonstrate anything particularly egregious that was unique to Fox. > > Therefore, until someone produces conclusive evidence to the contrary I maintain that people who selectively disparage fox news or those who trust as as being simple partisan hacks behaving predictably according to known and measurable tendencies to bias through their own heuristics. > > Prisoners of their own ignorance. I want to hear an honest conservative view that is made up of facts. I think it’s crucial for informed citizens to hear both sides of the argument if it’s based in factual reality. As in. Here are all the pertinent facts, and as a conservative here’s my take on it or something similar for liberals. My problem with FNC is not that they lean to the right. I’ll gladly listen to any honest conservative. I like George Will for that exact reason. My problem with FNC is that they purposely blur the lines of actual news and commentary and consistently run dishonest reports filled with distortions of the facts. Sure , some factual details are included and some segments are worse than others but as a whole I find their purposeful blurring of the lines between commentary and news and the sheer volume of willful distortion of facts to indicate that they have little regard for the truth. IMO that means calling themselves a news channel and repeating “fair and balanced” is another example of their dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/327 "2010-07-16T03:09:48Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > My problem with FNC is that they purposely blur the lines of actual news and commentary and consistently run dishonest reports filled with distortions of the facts. You are responding to Scylla who asked for someone to post a study to back up such a statement. If there are more registered Democrats than Republicans the question should be why is Fox bulldozing all the other news casts into the ground? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/328 "2010-07-16T03:15:46Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Oh, agreed. I never defended FNC (although I am willing to defend their web-based news). I will keep an eye out for any newer examples of the “MSM” memory-hole examples, and when I find a few, and if I have time to actually engage in one of these train-wreck debates, I will start a thread. 🙂 This is starting to resemble the UHC debate, during a criticism of an incident in Florida, someone presented a conservative opinion piece that outlined various flaws in European health care systems. But it was just one flaw from each country, lumped together to make UHC sound bad. There was a car commercial once that said, “better mileage than car y, better handling than car x, and a better maintenance record than car z.” So not better than any of those cars. Here we a criticism of FNC, with a few recent examples. These criticisms aren’t addressed. Instead, it is countered: we have one example from News Week in 1996. Something from CBS in 2000. A memory-hole at CNN also from 2000. And then a handful of random comments about MSNBC. But all of that gets lumped as, “The MSM sucks too.” What that tells me is that no one station, or no one news agency, is comparable to FNC. It has to be MSM, what ever that means. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/329 "2010-07-16T03:28:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You are responding to Scylla who asked for someone to post a study to back up such a statement. > > If there are more registered Democrats than Republicans the question should be why is Fox bulldozing all the other news casts into the ground? Because they figured out the flaw in news media: People don’t like hearing things that go against their beliefs. If raising taxes turned out to increase government revenue. If the cash for clunkers program improved car sales. If the stimulus lowered unemployment. Conservatives would turn off the channel. So they built a station around the idea that they can repeat back to people their opinions. I’m pretty sure they tested this concept with various individuals and found that for some reason a sub set of conservatives responded best to being told what they wanted to hear. Rush as been very successful with this concept for years, FNC took that and ran with it. FNC is, after all, in the business of delivering an audience to advertisers. That’s it. The station is targeting a specific demographic, just like ESPN and Lifetime. They have cornered the market for people that don’t give a shit about journalistic integrity–that is a group that should be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/330 "2010-07-16T03:53:44Z")
Did the liberal MSM praise of Obama for the iPhone 4 recently? I hope so, because here is Rush Limbaugh providing balance by blaming the Obama administration, a liberal media, and Sen. “Chuck you” Schumer: > **[Rush Limbaugh: Apple is a ‘Buy Opportunity’](https://www.cnbc.com/id/38264610/)** > > Limbaugh launched a passionate defense of Apple and its iPhone 4 on his syndicated radio program Thursday, saying he "had no reception problems" with the one he recently purchased. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/331 "2010-07-16T04:16:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You are responding to Scylla who asked for someone to post a study to back up such a statement. > > If there are more registered Democrats than Republicans the question should be why is Fox bulldozing all the other news casts into the ground? I wonder that as well. It doesn’t change my opinion of how they operate. It simply makes me sad about our society in general. I can only conclude that fewer left leaning folks get their news and commentary from TV. I don’t like them at all and I watch them as much as I do any other TV news source. I think media matters has done an ongoing study of thier accuracy but I’ll check for others as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/332 "2010-07-16T04:23:35Z")
I never understood why the story at the root of “Rathergate” was supposed to be such a big deal. So Bush may have skated on wealth and family connections to get out of possible Vietnam service. Who gives a fuck? The way Kerry was swiftboated, it was fairly obvious that someone’s _actual_ war record, if any, doesn’t mean a thing. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/333 "2010-07-16T04:35:29Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I wonder that as well. It doesn’t change my opinion of how they operate. It simply makes me sad about our society in general. > > I can only conclude that fewer left leaning folks get their news and commentary from TV. I don’t like them at all and I watch them as much as I do any other TV news source. > > I think media matters has done an ongoing study of thier accuracy but I’ll check for others as well. turns out I’m probably right about [lefties turning away TV news](http://people-press.org/report/215/news-audiences-increasingly-politicized) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/334 "2010-07-16T04:42:11Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Or maybe the poll a month or so ago on this board that asked about posters’ political leanings. I can’t find it, but my recollection was that those who self-identified as liberal outnumbered _ **all other** _ choices by at least 2-1. No, that’s not left leaning.:rolleyes: This is a mostly American board; what Americans call “liberal” is centrist at most. This forum is nowhere near “left leaning”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/335 "2010-07-16T04:50:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The way Kerry was swiftboated, it was fairly obvious that someone’s _actual_ war record, if any, doesn’t mean a thing. BTW, one has to notice here that several of the guys involved in the swiftboat (Marc Morano in the forefront) were involved later in the misrepresentation of the CRU hack - climategate emails! Same tactics. So much so that many in the science climate community called the affair the **SwiftHack**. [http://climateprogress.org/category/swifthack/](http://climateprogress.org/category/swifthack/) ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/336 "2010-07-16T05:21:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > …the CRU hack - climategate emails! I really hate to tell you this, since it’s obviously one of your pet issues, but I downloaded that file, and decompressed it. less than _ **1%** _ of that file was emails. The _ **vast** _ majority was data and program files. Damning ones. Just that most news consumers can’t understand it, so Fox harps on the smoke, instead of the gun. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/337 "2010-07-16T05:42:22Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I really hate to tell you this, since it’s obviously one of your pet issues, but I downloaded that file, and decompressed it. less than _ **1%** _ of that file was emails. The _ **vast** _ majority was data and program files. Damning ones. Why you hate to tell me that? I already knew it. Now if you are serious, it was found that it was not damming at all. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Just that most news consumers can’t understand it, so Fox harps on the smoke, instead of the gun. That gun was busted. > **[RealClimate: The CRU hack: Context](https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack-context/)** > > RealClimate: CRU hack, "climategate" context, fudge factors, Kevin Trenberth travesty, Wigley, hide the decline, Mann's Nature trick, UEA emails, Climate Research, Soon and Baliunas, peer-review So even the smoke from FOX was misleading. Now you know why slime like Marc Morano was attracted to this. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/338 "2010-07-16T05:49:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Why you hate to tell me that? I already knew it. Now if you are serious, it was found that it was not damming at all. > That gun was busted. > > [RealClimate: The CRU hack: Context](http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack-context/) > > So even the smoke from FOX was misleading. Now you know why slime like Marc Morano was attracted to this. > **[RealClimate: First CRU inquiry report released](https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/03/first-cru-inquiry-report-released/)** > > RealClimate: UK Parliamentary Select Committee, climategate, phil jones ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/339 "2010-07-16T06:08:58Z")
And, \*\*Cheshire Human \*\*the computer scientist at Deltoid checked the comments event before the investigations were completed. [http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/12/quote\_mining\_code.php](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/12/quote_mining_code.php) > [@](#): > > David Kane asks me to look at two of the strongest arguments made by the “other side” following the break in and theft of data from CRU. OK, once he sees how weak the strongest arguments are, we can all agree that the affair is a beat up. It is already too late for FOX and others to claim incompetence for their misleading efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/340 "2010-07-16T10:54:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Right. Spreading fallshoods and and purposely highlighting and repeating false conclusions about limited data in order to influence a presidential election. > Do you honestly think that matters to the majority of the voting public. Do you think the majority of the voting public gives a news anchor a lot more weight than a commentator. I know some do, but if the problem was impact on the nation by changing a presidential election by presenting false information then you have to be realistic about how an election is swayed. Rather than spend time on the many serious issues we face Fox relentlessly pursued the minor issue of a few slected comments by Reverand Wright and made it into a huge, “be scared of the black man” issue morning noon and night > [Here’s Chris Wallace’s contribution](http://crooksandliars.com/2008/03/16/fox-news-sunday-wallace-obsesses-over-reverend-wright) > [Here’s Snow](http://mediamatters.org/research/200804030001) not as Fox anchor but it’s an example of his abilty to be a partisan hack. > > Then there was the William Ayers loose connection to Obama and the same tactic. HAmmer it morning noon and night to scare voters with fabricated bullshit. I honestly think you are grasping at straws. So would any neutral observer, I think. You posted a link with a transcript of Wallace, interviewing Dodd and Schumer (hostile witnesses?), about Obama’s relationship with that bombastic whackjob Rev Wright. He wouldn’t let the senators duck the question about whether people should be concerned about the kind of church Obama attended for 20 yrs, the guy who married him, baptized his kids, etc. Clearly Obama knew this guy and had some sort of relationship with him. Seeing as we knew so little about Obama before he got elected, as he had very little experience (comparitively speaking, for a presidential candidate), I’m really trying to see why that line of questioning would be unexpected. Surely you don’t equate that with intentionally pushing forged documents and lying about their authenticity, do you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=18)