# Is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593 "2010-07-13T21:21:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/161 "2010-07-15T04:46:02Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If you don’t care what Ted Nugent thinks, you can change the channel you know. Why does it piss you off that somebody else does. > > Not really. It’s more that you found it offensive that he was on. The problem is that someone with Nugent’s extreme and extremely biased views is given air time on a highly-rated network while countless people with more moderate and objective views are not. > [@](#): > > I don’t like extreme leftists. They are the most intolerant, and dismissive group I know of. After all this time you don’t know what a Strawman is? Who are all these “extreme leftists” of which you speak? > [@](#): > > Missed that. I have nothing really for or against flag pins. You’re weaseling. Are you willing to admit that Hannity et al are wrong for bashing certain Democrats for appearing in public while not wearing flag pins? > [@](#): > > I think what constitutes torture is a valid topic of debate. More weaseling. There’s no getting around the fact that waterboarding is torture. Are you willing to admit that? > [@](#): > > I think the left and the mainstream media is incredibly dismissive and intolerant of the Tea Party. The Tea Party came into existence as a reaction to the election of Obama. They are not a race, they are an extremely partisan movement. If a Republican had been elected in 2008, the Tea Party would not exist. > [@](#): > > I think the left attacks and attempts to dismiss its antagonists rather than engage them, as they do with Fox News, the Tea party, Rush Limbaugh and what have you. Why is eveybody that is not mainstream lockstep liberal a bad guy, or a racist? How would you characterize Fox News, the Tea Party, and Rush Limbaugh vis-a-vis dismissing their antagonists and those not mainstream lockstep conservatives? > [@](#): > > Ok. Try this. If you are a knee-jerk liberal than liberal politicians tell the truth, liberal news sources report the news, and George Soros provides a public service and is an example of a wealthy man standing up for what’s right and putting his money where his mouth is. Chances are you also believe that Conservative politicians lie, conservative news sources and pundits spew propaganda and Rupert Murdoch is a rich rotten sonovabitch using his money to further the cause of his own evil self interest. > > If you are a knee-jerk conservative you believe the exact opposite. Right? But what if I’m not a “knee-jerk liberal” but simply a non-conservative? And what highly-rated TV networks does George Soros control? Why not compare Sean Hannity with, say, Brian Williams? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/162 "2010-07-15T05:39:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I doubt it. It is just that Fox is biased to the right, and so is that much further from the position of most of the posters on the SDMB that it looks extreme. I don’t think FoxNews is further from the center than most of the other MSM. It is certainly farther from the liberal position. > > But that is the source of most of the bias in the US media - they assume and assert, that the liberal position _is_ the center. Any deviation from that is “bias”. Lather (especially when they get caught), rinse, repeat. > > Regards, > Shodan So you’re one of those “relativists” who don’t think there is any objective standards by which we can judge people. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/163 "2010-07-15T05:42:04Z")
Never mind ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/164 "2010-07-15T05:43:59Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If you don’t care what Ted Nugent thinks, you can change the channel you know. How will that make Fox not be a Republican propaganda outlet? Once again you seem to think this is about my opinion when it’s really about Fox News and how it poisons the public discourse. > [@](#): > > I don’t like extreme leftists. They are the most intolerant, and dismissive group I know of. So? What do you or your opinions have to do with Fox news demonizing those who didn’t support Bush? > [@](#): > > Missed that. I have nothing really for or against flag pins. So? What do you or your opinions have to do with attacking the patriotism (in a really stupid way) of those who didn’t support Bush? > [@](#): > > I think what constitutes torture is a valid topic of debate. So? Fox supported Bush’s torture policy, it didn’t debate about it. What you think of the matter (didn’t you claim to have done this to yourself?) doesn’t enter into it; Fox News supported torture because Republicans were doing it and part of propaganda is damage control. > [@](#): > > I think the left and the mainstream media is incredibly dismissive and intolerant of the Tea Party. What does this have to do with it being the creation of a ‘news’ organization as a reaction to their Republican masters losing an election? > [@](#): > > I think the left attacks and attempts to dismiss its antagonists rather than engage them, as they do with Fox News, the Tea party, Rush Limbaugh and what have you. Whose mike is ‘the left’ cutting? And once more, what you think of the left has nothing to do with Fox News and why it is garbage. > [@](#): > > Why is eveybody that is not mainstream lockstep liberal a bad guy, or a racist? I was unaware that not lying and not supporting torture and not supporting the invasion of countries under false pretenses were lockstep liberal positions. > [@](#): > > Why is that a problem? The important thing is that you recognize Fox as a Republican propaganda channel. If that’s your bag, that’s your bag. I’m not trying to change your mind about anything. > [@](#): > > Ok. Try this. If you are a knee-jerk liberal than liberal politicians tell the truth, liberal news sources report the news, and George Soros provides a public service and is an example of a wealthy man standing up for what’s right and putting his money where his mouth is. Chances are you also believe that Conservative politicians lie, conservative news sources and pundits spew propaganda and Rupert Murdoch is a rich rotten sonovabitch using his money to further the cause of his own evil self interest. > > If you are a knee-jerk conservative you believe the exact opposite. Right? Wrong. I don’t know why Rupert Murdoch created a Republican propaganda channel, and I didn’t call him evil. I just know that admitted that Fox news is such a channel. > [@](#): > > Tell me something about your viewpoint that makes it superior to mine. It’s Canadian! But I couldn’t care less about your viewpoint. Fox News is a Republican propaganda outlet, and would be had we never crossed paths. Your viewpoint is not relevant to how Fox operates. It does the things it does. Your support is as irrelevant as my opposition. > [@](#): > > I think it’s inherently flawed in that it cannot accomodate dissent. I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/165 "2010-07-15T05:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I was unaware that not lying and not supporting torture and not supporting the invasion of countries under false pretenses were lockstep liberal positions. They may not be, but lying, supporting torture, and the invasion of countries under false pretenses are lockstep conservative positions ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/166 "2010-07-15T12:51:14Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > So you’re one of those “relativists” who don’t think there is any objective standards by which we can judge people. The very opposite was the point of **Bricker** ’s thread, which is what made it so important an event. It rather definitively established that the position “Fox is biased but the American MSM is not” cannot be rationally defended. Exactly the same standard of evidence, sufficient to establish bias at Fox, can be used to establish bias for most of the rest of the US media. So the question of the OP - “is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX?” - is correctly answered No. Watching one biased outlet does not disqualify one from having valid opinions - but if that is the only viewpoint you will consider, you have given valuable insight on the powers of your judgment. If you watch Fox, and dismiss everything else as biased and/or believe that Fox is not biased, you are an idiot. If you watch the rest of the MSM, dismiss anything on Fox as biased and/or believe the rest of the MSM is not biased, you are just as much an idiot. **Bricker** ’s thread was pretty much definitive and settled the issue. The Usual Suspects continue with their nonsense, but for those capable of being persuaded by rational thought, it was a watershed event. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/167 "2010-07-15T13:07:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So the question of the OP - “is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX?” - is correctly answered No. Watching one biased outlet does not disqualify one from having valid opinions - but if that is the only viewpoint you will consider, you have given valuable insight on the powers of your judgment. The thread title is “Is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX?”… however, the \*actual \*OP is: [QUOTE= The OP] I’ve realized that if someone tells me that they consider FOX to be a politically ‘balanced’ media outlet, or think of it as objective news, I will dismiss them. [/QUOTE] So, whether answered correctly or not, the OP is not what was answered- merely the thread title. Reading is Fun-damental. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/168 "2010-07-15T13:14:13Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I think the left attacks and attempts to dismiss its antagonists rather than engage them, as they do with Fox News, the Tea party, Rush Limbaugh and what have you. Why is eveybody that is not mainstream lockstep liberal a bad guy, or a racist? Truer words have never been spoken. Especially here in the lefty Amen Corner that is the SDMB… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/169 "2010-07-15T13:41:11Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Truer words have never been spoken. Especially here in the lefty Amen Corner that is the SDMB… One of the joys of debating on the SDMB is that no matter what you say about liberals, one of them will be along shortly to show that it is absolutely true. "All those conservatives are stupid - they only watch Fox because it tells them what they want to hear’. Then they attack anyone on the SDMB - who doesn’t tell them what they want to hear. 🙂 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/170 "2010-07-15T13:46:52Z")
Conservatives sure do like to play the victim nowadays, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/171 "2010-07-15T13:53:03Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Conservatives sure do like to play the victim nowadays, don’t they? When haven’t they? They have always gone on about how persecuted they are, about how the Reds/liberals/homosexuals/Jews/brown people/whatever are everywhere, secretly in control of everything and are persecuting them. Paranoia and a victim/martyr complex are nearly universal among rightwingers. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/172 "2010-07-15T14:11:09Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Truer words have never been spoken. Especially here in the lefty Amen Corner that is the SDMB… Hey, engagement is only possible if it’s two-sided. Flinging poo is only enjoyable for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/173 "2010-07-15T14:17:10Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Truer words have never been spoken. Especially here in the lefty Amen Corner that is the SDMB… The SDMB isn’t particularly left wing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/174 "2010-07-15T14:38:14Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Conservatives sure do like to play the victim nowadays, don’t they? Only if you define “playing the victim” as “laughing at your silly posts”. I mean, come on - look at this tripe. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > The SDMB isn’t particularly left wing. Or this - > [@Ludovic](#): > > Hey, engagement is only possible if it’s two-sided. Which came shortly after this - > [@The Tooth](#): > > I couldn’t care less about your viewpoint. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I think it’s inherently flawed in that it cannot accomodate dissent. > > I can live with that. Look, I understand how hard it is to read something that disagrees with you for comprehension. But all the conservatives on the SDMB do it, by virtue of the fact that they post to a far-left message board like this one. But a substantial proportion of lefties on that same board are insistent that they will not consider any point of view but their own. Which, as I say, gives valuable information on how reliable their opinions can be considered to be. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/175 "2010-07-15T14:39:49Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@Scylla](#): > > > > I think the left attacks and attempts to dismiss its antagonists rather than engage them, as they do with Fox News, the Tea party, Rush Limbaugh and what have you. Why is eveybody that is not mainstream lockstep liberal a bad guy, or a racist? > > Truer words have never been spoken. Especially here in the lefty Amen Corner that is the SDMB… You guys honestly believe that don’t you? It’s the kind of thing that would make Glenn Beck weep for his country, if it wasn’t the sort of shit that pays his salary. [Here](http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100714/800_ap_obama_billboard_1007.jpg) is what passes for conservative engagement. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/176 "2010-07-15T14:44:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The SDMB isn’t particularly left wing. Didn’t you get the memo? Any media outlet that doesn’t bash liberals is left wing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/177 "2010-07-15T14:48:20Z")
Excuse me, but when has Rush Limbaugh ever made an effort to engage liberals in discussion? What effort have the teabaggers made? Or Fox News? The right wing media complex is a green zone, a bubble. No actual discussion is allowed. They never try to engage with the people they disagree with, they just villify them without ever allowing a dissenting word or viewpoint. It’s complete and total bullshit to say that “the left” won’t engage with Limbaugh, Fox News, etc. when those entities make themslves completely _unavaliable_ for engagement. When has Sean Hannity ever gone outside of his own green zone to try to have an honest media discussion with a lefty or answer questions about himself? When’s the last time Limbaugh did it? Remember when the Insurance companies and the gOP were busing people into the town hall meetings on health care reform with instructons to disrupt, scream and shout speakers down in order to PREVENT discussion with the public and stop them from getting information? Was that an example of “engagement” by the right? It isn’t the left (or the imaginary “MSM”) that won’t engage. It’s the rightie in the media who hide in their bunkers and are terrified to ever talk to anyone who isn’t on their team. When’s the last time your hero, Sarah Palin, has ever given an interview outside the Fox News green zone or ever tried to debate anyone who disagrees with her? It’s the righties that are the cowards. Even on the internet, they’re cowards. Show me a conservative message board that doesn’t instantly ban dissenters. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/178 "2010-07-15T14:50:43Z")
I’d say the SDMB has a leftish slant by American standards, but would be considered from moderately to very right wing by European standards. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/179 "2010-07-15T14:51:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The very opposite was the point of **Bricker** ’s thread, which is what made it so important an event. It rather definitively established that the position “Fox is biased but the American MSM is not” cannot be rationally defended. Exactly the same standard of evidence, sufficient to establish bias at Fox, can be used to establish bias for most of the rest of the US media. > > So the question of the OP - “is it ok to dismiss someone for watching FOX?” - is correctly answered No. Watching one biased outlet does not disqualify one from having valid opinions - but if that is the only viewpoint you will consider, you have given valuable insight on the powers of your judgment. > > If you watch Fox, and dismiss everything else as biased and/or believe that Fox is not biased, you are an idiot. If you watch the rest of the MSM, dismiss anything on Fox as biased and/or believe the rest of the MSM is not biased, you are just as much an idiot. > > **Bricker** ’s thread was pretty much definitive and settled the issue. The Usual Suspects continue with their nonsense, but for those capable of being persuaded by rational thought, it was a watershed event. > > Regards, > Shodan The mistaken conclusion that that both you and \*\*Bricker \*\*are making is confusing “dissenting view” with “outright garbage.” Otherwise there would be no standards for journalism: the National Inquirer is just as valid at the Washington Post. What you are suggesting is that we have no measure for quality. I can’t say my oven is hot, because in a way everything is hot. You linked to one of Bricker’s threads, but [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=549587&highlight=pimp) better highlights the inability to call a spade a spade, when it represents your views. I guess the sad reality is that FNC is all conservatives have, and so Reagan’s 11th Commandment is in place. Everything to the left of FNC is now considered MSM. Just as anything to the left of the Republican Party is considered pinko commie socialism. It doesn’t matter if FNC lies, misleads, or distorts the truth, because they are only doing it to balance out the MSM. Clearly what’s needed is a \*legitimate \*right leaning news organization that intelligent conservatives can enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593/180 "2010-07-15T14:57:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Only if you define “playing the victim” as “laughing at your silly posts”. I don’t understand what you’re on about. As I said, Fox News is what it is, and would be had I never posted or **Scylla** never replied. **Scylla** ’s opinion of me has no bearing on the low quality of Fox News’ product. My opinion of Fox is based on what I see Fox do. What you or **Scylla** think of me doesn’t change that at all. You guys have nothing to do with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-dismiss-someone-for-watching-fox/546593.md?page=10)