# Is it OK to present veganism to 9 year olds? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 11, 2019, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704 "2019-12-11T10:54:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/41 "2019-12-11T17:05:04Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Why not? We “introduce” them to crap like McDonald’s and White Castle when they are mere toddlers. Few question that. Parents have that right. It might be a poor decision, but it’s their right, as opposed to schools making a lifestyle decision for them. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > […]I think it is worth shocking children with them so they can put pressure on the people in their lives with the actual power to effect meaningful changes. It’s important to separate the point about whether meat production is humane and its impact on the environment vs. how we talk to our children about it. I don’t have any problem communicating facts to these kids but I feel that “shock videos” are inappropriate at that age. Driving 100 MPH on the highway is dangerous but I don’t think schools should be showing 9-year-old kids videos of state police mopping up brains and guts after accidents. > [@](#): > > To the second point: The US Immigration process does not typically break up families and store preschool children in cages exposed to extreme climates for extended periods of time. How frequent does an abominable act have to become before it can be considered typical, or at least worthy of addressing? The videos like this are not trying to persuade us to address the abominable acts; they are trying to persuade us, by showing us selected abominable acts, that the entire industry should be abolished. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/42 "2019-12-11T17:08:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yes. All vegans are the caricature you painted. All of them. No exceptions. Loons the lot. :rolleyes: IME, yes. My daughter is a vegetarian and I respect her choice and work with it. When we go out for dinner I easily become vegetarian for the meal. But vegans? The few I’ve met have all been wackos. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/43 "2019-12-11T17:23:17Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > IME, yes. My daughter is a vegetarian and I respect her choice and work with it. When we go out for dinner I easily become vegetarian for the meal. > > But vegans? The few I’ve met have all been wackos. I suspect we can easily head into the “No True Scotsman” territory here. Or perhaps my understanding of vegan in the context of this thread (e.g. diet) is insufficiently orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/44 "2019-12-11T17:26:05Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Why are we assuming the vegan presentation was some kind of nefarious indoctrination? > I think it it perfectly possible (even likely\*) that the presentation was a even-handed explanation of what the person giving the presentation thought about food and why he came to think that way. That is not indoctrination, that is education. Because it said so in the OP: > [@Orville\_mogul](#): > > I should mention that this person was actually an activist, not a nutritional professional, ecologist, etc. Apparently he even showed a shock video with images inside an abbatoir…. That is not “education” for 9 & 10 year olds. That is propaganda and indoctrination made to scare little kids into following the speaker’s worldview. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/45 "2019-12-11T17:41:13Z")
My opinion is no. Just as I wouldn’t have a pacifist there discussing nuclear war. 9 year olds are still in the phase where they’re just beginning to learn about food and nutrition. They should be focusing on the basics of nutrition and why a banana might be a better choice than a Reeses cup. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/46 "2019-12-11T17:43:29Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > That is not “education” for 9 & 10 year olds. That is propaganda and indoctrination made to scare little kids into following the speaker’s worldview. So an atheist giving a talk at a Catholic school?.. Also a propagandist? Not every controversial point of view is scary. Kids aren’t as fragile as we often make them. And if they are, it’s because we make them so. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/47 "2019-12-11T17:52:37Z")
If my school is going to teach 9 year-olds anything about eating, it should be about balanced diets, avoiding junk foods, etc. It’s perfectly fine for a nutritionist to point out that there are many ways to have a balanced diet with or without meat. I don’t believe that it’s any more necessary to drive the point home with a video of a slaughterhouse than it is for the fast food industry to put out videos of children suffering bloody diarrhea and dying from eating\* e. coli\* contaminated romaine lettuce. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/48 "2019-12-11T18:04:51Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Why are we assuming the vegan presentation was some kind of nefarious indoctrination? > I think it it perfectly possible (even likely\*) that the presentation was a even-handed explanation of what the person giving the presentation thought about food and why he came to think that way. That is not indoctrination, that is education. From the OP: > [@](#): > > Apparently he even showed a shock video with images inside an abbatoir…. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Sadly it is not possible to show any footage from the meat industry that will not qualify as “shock video”. Again, that is not indoctrination but simple fact. Any discussion about our food without some idea of what we are doing to the animals we eat would be horribly one-sided. I’ve seen many cooking shows that walk through the process of how an animal is selected to be butchered, transferred to the abattoir, and then its carcass is carved into pieces of meat. Generally, the slaughter and skinning isn’t shown, but they’ll sometimes show the rooms where it takes place and briefly explain the process. Jimmy’s Farm was one such show. [Jimmy's Farm - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy%27s_Farm) I’ve also seen militant vegan protestors carrying signs with pictures of half-skinned animals. When I hear that a vegan activist showed a shock video depicting an abattoir, that’s the sort of image that comes to mind. And I wouldn’t want those images shown to a nine year old, especially without parental approval. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/49 "2019-12-11T18:06:55Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > If my school is going to teach 9 year-olds anything about eating, it should be about balanced diets, avoiding junk foods, etc. > > It’s perfectly fine for a nutritionist to point out that there are many ways to have a balanced diet with or without meat. I don’t believe that it’s any more necessary to drive the point home with a video of a slaughterhouse than it is for the fast food industry to put out videos of children suffering bloody diarrhea and dying from eating\* e. coli\* contaminated romaine lettuce. Why are you conflating established meat industry practices with children dying of food born illness, whether from contaminated plants or meats? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/50 "2019-12-11T18:10:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m specifically talking about schools. Last I checked, Sesame Street didn’t have vegans on it telling people it was immoral to eat meat. > > And I’ve never seen a slaughterhouse video on Mr. Rogers. Daniel the tiger goes on a rampage…😉 ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/51 "2019-12-11T18:20:10Z")
Hm, who vets the speakers? What if a speaker from a white supremisist group wanted to teach? or another such offensive group? Who decides whats appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/52 "2019-12-11T18:34:32Z")
Most people’s understanding of our food systems, their impacts on the environment, and the moral questions (and conclusions) that might or might arise from looking at those systems through certain lenses and filters is so flawed and fragmented that having a “vegan activist” as an invited guest to a classroom of grade-school kids is obviously poor pedagogy. Not because that activist is necessarily wrong, but because they are likely presenting a narrow view of a complicated issue not to educate, but in order to promote specific behaviors that are not necessarily in line with the goals of the school. And any facts presented are likely not vetted or checked in any way, or provided with relevant context. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/53 "2019-12-11T18:40:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I suspect we can easily head into the “No True Scotsman” territory here. Or perhaps my understanding of vegan in the context of this thread (e.g. diet) is insufficiently orthodox. I’m comfortable assuming my point of view is partly due to confirmation bias and partly due to small numbers. I’ve met/interacted with a few (\<12) vegans and they’ve all been wacky. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/54 "2019-12-11T18:59:14Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Because it said so in the OP: > That is not “education” for 9 & 10 year olds. That is propaganda and indoctrination made to scare little kids into following the speaker’s worldview. Exactly- veganism is (AFAIK) more of a social/political statement and/or form of activism, not a simple lifestyle choice, like garden-variety vegetarianism. It’s not so much that I don’t think 9 year olds can handle it (although I don’t think most are well-equipped), but rather that this activist is basically taking the educational legitimacy and authority (i.e. what we teach is true and accurate), and cloaking his own personal worldviews in it. So your average 9 year old might see this guy’s presentation and assume that, because it was a school presentation and not followed up by some sort of critical thinking exercise and/or opposing viewpoint, that it is more legitimate than it is. To use an analogy, would we be cool if a 2nd Amendment activist gave a talk at a school talking about how gun ownership prevents crime, helps us defend our homes, etc…? This is the exact same thing, just on a different topic. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/55 "2019-12-11T19:01:01Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly- veganism is (AFAIK) more of a social/political statement and/or form of activism, not a simple lifestyle choice, like garden-variety vegetarianism. > > It’s not so much that I don’t think 9 year olds can handle it (although I don’t think most are well-equipped), but rather that this activist is basically taking the educational legitimacy and authority (i.e. what we teach is true and accurate), and cloaking his own personal worldviews in it. So your average 9 year old might see this guy’s presentation and assume that, because it was a school presentation and not followed up by some sort of critical thinking exercise and/or opposing viewpoint, that it is more legitimate than it is. > > To use an analogy, would we be cool if a 2nd Amendment activist gave a talk at a school talking about how gun ownership prevents crime, helps us defend our homes, etc…? This is the exact same thing, just on a different topic. or this: > **[Juul gave presentations in schools to kids—and the FDA is fuming](https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/juul-gave-presentations-in-schools-to-kids-and-the-fda-is-fuming/)** > > FDA says JUUL hasn't proven its e-cigs are safer than standard cigarettes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/56 "2019-12-11T19:04:06Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > (…)Generally, the slaughter and skinning isn’t shown, (…) And you think footage from a slaughterhouse without any actual slaughter is educational… how? “This is a magic box: cows go in, meatloaf and steaks come out.”? That is not fair to the animal or the butcher. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/57 "2019-12-11T19:13:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly- veganism is (AFAIK) more of a social/political statement and/or form of activism, not a simple lifestyle choice, like garden-variety vegetarianism. > > It’s not so much that I don’t think 9 year olds can handle it (although I don’t think most are well-equipped), but rather that this activist is basically taking the educational legitimacy and authority (i.e. what we teach is true and accurate), and cloaking his own personal worldviews in it. So your average 9 year old might see this guy’s presentation and assume that, because it was a school presentation and not followed up by some sort of critical thinking exercise and/or opposing viewpoint, that it is more legitimate than it is. > > To use an analogy, would we be cool if a 2nd Amendment activist gave a talk at a school talking about how gun ownership prevents crime, helps us defend our homes, etc…? This is the exact same thing, just on a different topic. Veganism does not pose a threat to society in the way that guns have been shown to. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/58 "2019-12-11T19:17:31Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m comfortable assuming my point of view is partly due to confirmation bias and partly due to small numbers. I’ve met/interacted with a few (\<12) vegans and they’ve all been wacky. My sample size is smaller, though there are family relations in two cases. I’m happy to climb down from coming across as being in a position of authority on the subject. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/59 "2019-12-11T19:54:11Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > And you think footage from a slaughterhouse without any actual slaughter is educational… how? > > “This is a magic box: cows go in, meatloaf and steaks come out.”? > > That is not fair to the animal or the butcher. In the same way that a film about war may be educational without showing anyone actually being killed explicitly on screen. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704/60 "2019-12-11T20:43:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So an atheist giving a talk at a Catholic school?.. Also a propagandist? Depends. There are two kinds of atheists. If I had a kid at a Catholic school #1 might be OK, #2 would not. 1. Some people take it on faith that there is a God, but others like me see no objective evidence that God exists, we we don’t share that faith. There are many arguments that try to prove that God exists but they do not follow the rules of logic. If you have faith, then it’s a personal choice, just as it is to not have faith. 2. I don’t believe in your god and anybody who does is an irrational idiot. Religion has perpetrated more violence on mankind in the name of gods than any other cause. Religion is a blight on humanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-ok-to-present-veganism-to-9-year-olds/844704.md?page=4)